Marketers have long optimised for visibility and memory, but in our metric-focused industry, are we measuring what really matters?

In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, host James Lawrence speaks with Dr. Karen Nelson-Field, Founder of Amplified, about why attention is the real currency of modern advertising and how to measure it effectively. From the myth of virality to the flaws in CPMs, Karen shares what years of research reveal about how people truly engage with ads, and what marketers need to do next to stay ahead.

• Dr. Karen’s journey: from academic researcher to founder, shaping the global conversation on attention measurement
• Why traditional metrics like reach, impressions and engagement fail to capture real ad effectiveness
• How attention measurement works and why it’s revolutionising media planning and buying
• The difference between active, passive and non-attention, and how they impact ROI
• Why CPM should stand for “Cost per Meaningless Thousand”
• How creative and media need to work together for attention to truly convert
• Why cheaper ad formats often deliver worse ROI than expected
• The role of AI and synthetic audiences in scaling attention measurement
• The future: the unification of creative and media through AI-driven tools

Additional resource: The Eye-Watering Cost of Dull Media

Dr. Karen Nelson-Field is a globally recognised researcher and entrepreneur reshaping how marketers think about effectiveness. As the Founder and CEO of Amplified, she leads pioneering work in attention measurement across platforms and formats. A former academic turned industry innovator, Karen’s research has influenced how the world’s biggest brands evaluate advertising performance.

• James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/
• Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast
• Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/
• Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/

• Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg
• Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm

This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

As 2025 comes to a close, the conversation around in-housing has never been more confusing. With rising pressures on budgets and the disruption caused by AI, businesses are being forced to rethink what the right marketing structure might look like for them.

In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, Host James Lawrence speaks with Darren Woolley, Founder and Global CEO of Australia’s leading marketing management consultancy TrinityP3. Together they unpack the myths surrounding in-housing and outsourcing, and what research really says about cost, culture, productivity and creativity.

• Why “in-housing vs. agency” is the wrong question to ask and what the right balance looks like
• The hidden costs that make many in-house teams more expensive than expected
• How in-house agencies can fall into creative myopia and how to bring external stimulus back in
• Why AI is more than just efficiency: accountability, smarter decision-making, strategic advantage and more
• The three challenges keeping marketers up at night: tighter budgets, proving ROI and keeping pace with change
• How agencies remain indispensable by offering perspective and speed that internal teams can’t easily replicate

Darren Woolley is considered a thought leader on all aspects of marketing management - a problem solver, negotiator, mentor, Founder & Global CEO of TrinityP3, industry commentator, podcaster and author. He is also an ex-chair of the Australian Marketing Institute, an ex-president of the Melbourne Advertising and Design Club, ex-medical scientist and ex-creative director.

You can follow Darren on LinkedIn.

• James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/
• Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast
• Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/
• Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/

• Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg
• Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm

This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.

Once thought of as a “traditional” channel, outdoor has once again become one of the most creative and technology-integrated mediums in modern marketing. As audiences move faster and attention gets harder to hold, out-of-home (OOH) continues to prove its staying power.

In this episode, James Lawrence sits down with Josh Gurgiel, Head of Creative at POLY (oOh!media’s content and innovation hub), to unpack how Australia’s largest OOH network is evolving, from the rise of digital formats and AI-driven creative to why simplicity and emotion still sit at the heart of every great campaign.

• Why OOH remains one of the most powerful full-funnel channels, and will continue to be
• The creative rules that separate great outdoor work from visual clutter
• How motion and real-time creative are reshaping outdoor storytelling
• Why consistency and context, not constant reinvention, drive long-term brand resonance
• How brands like Specsavers, McDonald’s and Bankwest are redefining what ‘public space art’ can be
• Why static and digital work best together, and what that means for campaign planning in 2026
• A look ahead: from immersive brand experiences to outdoor as cultural content

Josh Gurgiel is the Head of Creative at POLY, the content and creative innovation hub within oOh!media. With a career spanning creative direction, brand strategy and production, Josh leads the team shaping the next era of OOH innovation. His work with leading Australian and global brands continues to push the boundaries of how creativity, technology and data intersect in public space.

• James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/
• Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast
• Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/
• Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/

• Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg
• Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm

This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.