This week on “The Nonviolent Jesus Podcast,” I speak with John Fugelsang, actor, comedian, talk show host, and author of the new book, Separation of Church & Hate: A Sane Person's Guide to Taking Back the Bible from Fundamentalists, Fascists, and Flock-Fleecing Frauds (Simon and Schuster).

The son of a former Franciscan brother and a nun, John Fugelsang acted on CSI, has appeared on MSNBC and CNN, and has hosted many TV shows and podcasts, including VH1 shows with Paul McCartney and the final public appearance of George Harrison.

He has debated Jerry Falwell and David Duke, been picketed by the Westboro Baptist Church, and hosted the radio series Tell Me Everything on SiriusXM (where he once welcomed John Dear). His PBS road trip film on the American Dream, called Dream On, was named Best Documentary at the New York Independent Film Festival. He currently hosts the John Fugelsang podcast.

John explains why he wrote this book and who it is for; "I’ve learned that we don't have to hate or fight Christian nationalists; share the words of God and Jesus with them and let them argue with God and Jesus".

"Tele-evangelists didn't tell me to love my enemies; instead, they told me who my enemies are. Christian nationalism is just about power. It’s about their club being on top and imposing their version of Christianity on us all. They use Jesus as camouflage. Why should I listen to Trump and Stephen Miller and reject the words of Jesus?"

He exposes prosperity gospel as dangerous, victim blaming junk theology that has nothing to do with Christ's teachings, and explains how we can go forward in the age of Trump.

At one point he reflects with great empathy and compassion on Charlie Kirk, the far right Christian nationalist who was recently assassinated in Utah, who had challenged him in the past: "I made so many mistakes, I said so many things i thought were righteous, and powerful, and strong, that were actually cruel and stupid, Charlie Kirk never got to grow old, see how wrong he was, and change his position. I have.”

John compares so-called "Jesus fans and followers" without being "Christ followers" with a Rolling Stones cover band, and explains what Jesus' favorite issue was and why it is like Eric Clapton's "Layla" in his setlist.

John takes the words of Jesus seriously, and he concludes with a powerful message: Jesus is breaking every cycle of violence. Love is the only religion that works. That’s what we have to do, he says: "practice the teachings of Jesus, love our enemies, make peace and reconcile with one another."

"We need people willing to take a punch in the name of love".

Listen in to this thought-provoking conversation and learn more at www.johnfugelsang.com

beatitudescenter.org

This week I speak with Archbishop John Wester of New Mexico about his pilgrimage of peace last month to Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan, for the 80th anniversary of the US atomic bombing, and his ground-breaking work of reconciliation with the bishops and church in Japan.

Archbishop John Wester became Archbishop of the Archdiocese of Santa Fe, New Mexico in 2015 after serving as bishop of Salt Lake City, and before that, auxiliary bishop of San Francisco. His January 11th, 2022, pastoral letter called, “Living in the Light of Christ’s Peace: A Conversation Toward Nuclear Disarmament” is the first official document in US Church history calling for the abolition of nuclear weapons. To read it visit www.archdiosf.org

He tells about his first visit to Hiroshima a few years ago, and returning home to Santa Fe and seeing the place where the scientists worked on the actual Hiroshima bomb.

“We commemorate this anniversary,” he continues, “so that it will never happen again. We’re not just commemorating the past but trying to preserve the future.” During his meetings with the Japanese bishops and other church leaders, he and others launched a new organization, “A Partnership for a World Without Nuclear Weapons,” www.pwnw.org to promote solidarity and cooperation between the Japanese and American church for nuclear disarmament. This is something that has never happened until now. It’s a real sign of hope.

He quotes Omar Bradley: “Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war than we know about peace, more about killing than we know about living. We have grasped the mystery of the atom and rejected the Sermon on the Mount.”

Wester shares with me who he thinks changed the whole discourse on nuclear weapons in the Catholic Church, and even said that possessing nuclear weapons is immoral.

And he says in no uncertain terms how we have "become inured to war, violence and starvation. Over 60,000 have died in Gaza; we read about, sip some coffee and go on with our daily business. We have to join our voices with others to get rid of nuclear weapons and end our wars.”

He recalls some statistics that should give us pause regarding what the results of a nuclear war would be and how our nuclear arms race is worse than ever.

There is hope as Wester explains who is behind all the peace movements. Listen in and be inspired by this prophetic leader for nuclear disarmament!

www.pwnw.org

archdiosf.org

beatitudescenter.org

On this week’s episode of “The Nonviolent Jesus Podcast,” I share the life and lessons of Mahatma Gandhi, India’s great independence leader and the world’s foremost teacher of active nonviolence on a national, global scale.

I’ve been a student of Gandhi for 45 years, and studied his collected works for my own anthology, Mohandas Gandhi: Essential Writings (Orbis, 2002).

I consider Gandhi one of the greatest followers of the nonviolent Jesus in the last two centuries, whose teachings are well worth studying and pursuing today.

Listen why I propose that Gandhi was not born Gandhi, but had to become Gandhi.

That life long journey of transformation takes single-minded, concentrated effort to allow God to disarm us, change us and fashion us into people of universal love and Gospel nonviolence.

In this episode, I outline the chronology of his life, and then discuss various basic lessons. I recall at one point his statement during the 1922 trial, when he said, “Non-cooperation with evil is as much a duty as cooperation with good.” I share how Rev. Ignacio Ellacuria, president of the Jesuit University in El Salvador who was later assassinated with five other Jesuits in 1989, told me something similar when I first met him in 1985. “If you want to be for the reign of God, we have learned in El Salvador, you have to also be against the anti-reign of evil.”

I suggest a new understanding of morality and ethics: In a world of institutionalized, systemic evil, it’s not enough to be a good person or to try to do ‘the good.’ We also have to stand up publicly against evil and resist it. We can’t just be for peace; we also have to be against each and every specific war.

“Nonviolence means avoiding injury to anything on earth in thought, word or deed,” Gandhi wrote early on in South Africa. Over the years, as he gained more experience, he concluded that “Devotion to nonviolence is the highest expression of humanity’s conscious state…Nonviolence is the greatest and most active force in the world… One person who can express nonviolence in life exercises a force superior to all the forces of brutality.

My optimism rests on my belief in the infinite possibilities of the individual to develop nonviolence. The more you develop it in your own being, the more infectious it becomes till it overwhelms your surroundings and by and by might oversweep the world.”

We too have to become our ideal selves before God, change ourselves and strive to become the peacemakers we were created to be, to become the people of nonviolence stuck in a culture of violence.

Listen in and see what you think about Gandhi’s steadfast, persistent insistence on truth, nonviolence and peace.

www.beatitudescenter.org

Note: Share this podcast with others to celebrate International Peace Day on Sunday, September 21st.