This week on “The Nonviolent Jesus Podcast,” I speak with John Fugelsang, actor, comedian, talk show host, and author of the new book, Separation of Church & Hate: A Sane Person's Guide to Taking Back the Bible from Fundamentalists, Fascists, and Flock-Fleecing Frauds (Simon and Schuster).

The son of a former Franciscan brother and a nun, John Fugelsang acted on CSI, has appeared on MSNBC and CNN, and has hosted many TV shows and podcasts, including VH1 shows with Paul McCartney and the final public appearance of George Harrison.

He has debated Jerry Falwell and David Duke, been picketed by the Westboro Baptist Church, and hosted the radio series Tell Me Everything on SiriusXM (where he once welcomed John Dear). His PBS road trip film on the American Dream, called Dream On, was named Best Documentary at the New York Independent Film Festival. He currently hosts the John Fugelsang podcast.

John explains why he wrote this book and who it is for; "I’ve learned that we don't have to hate or fight Christian nationalists; share the words of God and Jesus with them and let them argue with God and Jesus".

"Tele-evangelists didn't tell me to love my enemies; instead, they told me who my enemies are. Christian nationalism is just about power. It’s about their club being on top and imposing their version of Christianity on us all. They use Jesus as camouflage. Why should I listen to Trump and Stephen Miller and reject the words of Jesus?"

He exposes prosperity gospel as dangerous, victim blaming junk theology that has nothing to do with Christ's teachings, and explains how we can go forward in the age of Trump.

At one point he reflects with great empathy and compassion on Charlie Kirk, the far right Christian nationalist who was recently assassinated in Utah, who had challenged him in the past: "I made so many mistakes, I said so many things i thought were righteous, and powerful, and strong, that were actually cruel and stupid, Charlie Kirk never got to grow old, see how wrong he was, and change his position. I have.”

John compares so-called "Jesus fans and followers" without being "Christ followers" with a Rolling Stones cover band, and explains what Jesus' favorite issue was and why it is like Eric Clapton's "Layla" in his setlist.

John takes the words of Jesus seriously, and he concludes with a powerful message: Jesus is breaking every cycle of violence. Love is the only religion that works. That’s what we have to do, he says: "practice the teachings of Jesus, love our enemies, make peace and reconcile with one another."

"We need people willing to take a punch in the name of love".

Listen in to this thought-provoking conversation and learn more at www.johnfugelsang.com

beatitudescenter.org

This week I speak with Archbishop John Wester of New Mexico about his pilgrimage of peace last month to Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan, for the 80th anniversary of the US atomic bombing, and his ground-breaking work of reconciliation with the bishops and church in Japan.

Archbishop John Wester became Archbishop of the Archdiocese of Santa Fe, New Mexico in 2015 after serving as bishop of Salt Lake City, and before that, auxiliary bishop of San Francisco. His January 11th, 2022, pastoral letter called, “Living in the Light of Christ’s Peace: A Conversation Toward Nuclear Disarmament” is the first official document in US Church history calling for the abolition of nuclear weapons. To read it visit www.archdiosf.org

He tells about his first visit to Hiroshima a few years ago, and returning home to Santa Fe and seeing the place where the scientists worked on the actual Hiroshima bomb.

“We commemorate this anniversary,” he continues, “so that it will never happen again. We’re not just commemorating the past but trying to preserve the future.” During his meetings with the Japanese bishops and other church leaders, he and others launched a new organization, “A Partnership for a World Without Nuclear Weapons,” www.pwnw.org to promote solidarity and cooperation between the Japanese and American church for nuclear disarmament. This is something that has never happened until now. It’s a real sign of hope.

He quotes Omar Bradley: “Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war than we know about peace, more about killing than we know about living. We have grasped the mystery of the atom and rejected the Sermon on the Mount.”

Wester shares with me who he thinks changed the whole discourse on nuclear weapons in the Catholic Church, and even said that possessing nuclear weapons is immoral.

And he says in no uncertain terms how we have "become inured to war, violence and starvation. Over 60,000 have died in Gaza; we read about, sip some coffee and go on with our daily business. We have to join our voices with others to get rid of nuclear weapons and end our wars.”

He recalls some statistics that should give us pause regarding what the results of a nuclear war would be and how our nuclear arms race is worse than ever.

There is hope as Wester explains who is behind all the peace movements. Listen in and be inspired by this prophetic leader for nuclear disarmament!

www.pwnw.org

archdiosf.org

beatitudescenter.org

On this week’s episode of “The Nonviolent Jesus Podcast,” I share the life and lessons of Mahatma Gandhi, India’s great independence leader and the world’s foremost teacher of active nonviolence on a national, global scale.

I’ve been a student of Gandhi for 45 years, and studied his collected works for my own anthology, Mohandas Gandhi: Essential Writings (Orbis, 2002).

I consider Gandhi one of the greatest followers of the nonviolent Jesus in the last two centuries, whose teachings are well worth studying and pursuing today.

Listen why I propose that Gandhi was not born Gandhi, but had to become Gandhi.

That life long journey of transformation takes single-minded, concentrated effort to allow God to disarm us, change us and fashion us into people of universal love and Gospel nonviolence.

In this episode, I outline the chronology of his life, and then discuss various basic lessons. I recall at one point his statement during the 1922 trial, when he said, “Non-cooperation with evil is as much a duty as cooperation with good.” I share how Rev. Ignacio Ellacuria, president of the Jesuit University in El Salvador who was later assassinated with five other Jesuits in 1989, told me something similar when I first met him in 1985. “If you want to be for the reign of God, we have learned in El Salvador, you have to also be against the anti-reign of evil.”

I suggest a new understanding of morality and ethics: In a world of institutionalized, systemic evil, it’s not enough to be a good person or to try to do ‘the good.’ We also have to stand up publicly against evil and resist it. We can’t just be for peace; we also have to be against each and every specific war.

“Nonviolence means avoiding injury to anything on earth in thought, word or deed,” Gandhi wrote early on in South Africa. Over the years, as he gained more experience, he concluded that “Devotion to nonviolence is the highest expression of humanity’s conscious state…Nonviolence is the greatest and most active force in the world… One person who can express nonviolence in life exercises a force superior to all the forces of brutality.

My optimism rests on my belief in the infinite possibilities of the individual to develop nonviolence. The more you develop it in your own being, the more infectious it becomes till it overwhelms your surroundings and by and by might oversweep the world.”

We too have to become our ideal selves before God, change ourselves and strive to become the peacemakers we were created to be, to become the people of nonviolence stuck in a culture of violence.

Listen in and see what you think about Gandhi’s steadfast, persistent insistence on truth, nonviolence and peace.

www.beatitudescenter.org

Note: Share this podcast with others to celebrate International Peace Day on Sunday, September 21st.

This week I speak with world renown theologian and ethicist Professor Stanley Hauerwas. In 2001, TIME magazine named him “America’s greatest theologian.” He taught for years at the University of Notre Dame, before moving to Duke University where he was the Gilbert T. Rowe Professor of Theological ethics at Duke Divinity School. He also served at Duke Law School, and the University of Aberdeen. He has lectured around the world, and has been featured on “Oprah.”

Stanley has written too many books to list, but his bestsellers include, “The Peaceable Kingdom: A Primer in Christian Ethics;” “Jesus Changes Everything: A New World Made Possible;” “Resident Aliens: Life in the Christian Colony;” and “Cross-shattered Christ: Meditations on the 7 last words.”

Retired at 85 now, he continues to inspire and encourage us with his knowledge of and insights on nonviolence.

“When I grew up, I didn’t know what nonviolence was. That’s because I’m from Texas,” he says with a chuckle. “I went to Notre Dame to teach Catholics and ended up being shaped by Mennonites. I discovered that Jesus and the church were mutually interrelated. To worship Jesus is to bring to the world a witness of nonviolence that otherwise could not be seen.”

He reveals to us who Jesus is in a word, and that word being more powerful than we realize. In his words: "It raises questions that demands responses.”

“To be a worshipper of Christ is to be shaped by a cross that is a manifestation of God's love of our enemy. We must say ‘You can kill us, but you cannot determine the meaning of our death.’

The cross is a challenge to people who say 'Jesus is my Lord and Savior, but you have to kill someone every once in a while.’”

We discussed the great book The Politics of Jesus by his colleague John Howard Yoder, as well as the Kingdom of God, God’s will, and living the way Jesus intended.

He continues to eradicate false perceptions of what nonviolence is and is not, and how Jesus himself recreated community to bind people together to make God's kingdom real:

"The politics of Jesus exposed the false alternatives that claim to be peaceable but are in fact structural in their violence. God's will is to live in a world without violence. God's grace is always there making possible alternatives that would not be there without God's presence.”

He concludes, “God is patient with us in terms of our unfaithfulness in a way that gives us hope in a world that seems hopeless. In a world that has no time for patience, patience creates time and makes it possible for us to live our lives and work for nonviolent alternatives that otherwise would not be considered.”

Reignite your imagination, be inspired and encouraged by this wise Christian elder.

Check out: Stanleyhauerwas.org

beatitudescenter.org

This week I'm speaking with author, activist, and movement scholar Rivera Sun. Her novels include The Dandelion Insurrection and the award-winning, Ari Ara Series. She is the editor of “Nonviolence News” and program coordinator of “Campaign Nonviolence,” an annual national week of action that with over 5000 events across the US around International Peace Day, Sept. 21st. Her articles are syndicated by Peace Voice and published in hundreds of journals nationwide.

She tells me all about 'One Million Rising", an effort to mobilize and train one million people with a nonviolent toolbox for 'noncooperation' and how to resist authoritarianism. Find out about all kinds of actions we can take along with street protests, and the many ways people are standing up to ICE.

Find out why we need to do some soul searching if we want to live in a democratic society, and according to Rivera: "decide if is this a normal presidency or a presidency that has stepped outside the rule of law,"

She appeals to us to "organize, speak out and invoke the articles of impeachment to remove the president from office. If we want to live in a democratic society, we have to demand it. Find what you want to work on and do that, because we need you in the movement!”

Rivera offered many examples, such as last month’s massive one day strike led by ten unions in India just a few weeks ago, which 300 million people joined. “There is a rising swell of activity against authoritarianism all around the world.”

At the end of the conversation, Rivera suggested six holistic practices of nonviolence that can help sustain us for the long haul and elaborates on the following:

1. Don't go alone; make friends in the movement, and join a community.

2. Take breaks. It's a relay race, a marathon not a sprint.

3. Take a breath, then act.

4. Be against the injustice, not the people; go after the policy. Remember that people can and will change; give them space to do that.

5. Try not to become what you oppose!

6. Reclaim love, integrity, and always strive to embody the deepest principles of nonviolence.

For more about Rivera Sun and her books, check out: www.riverasun.com

and www.campaignnonviolence.org

Listen in and be inspired!

Today I'm speaking with Dr. Ken Butigan, author, organizer, activist, speaker, nonviolence trainer, and leader of Pace e Bene, a Franciscan-based peace organization.

Ken is Professor of Practice in the Peace, Justice, and Conflict Studies Program at DePaul. He has worked in a series of movements for social change, including campaigns addressing homelessness, nuclear weapons, freedom for East Timor, and the US wars in Iraq.

In the 1980s he was a founder and national coordinator of the Pledge of Resistance, which for nearly a decade mobilized nonviolent action for peace in Central America. He has worked for over 30 years with Pace e Bene Nonviolence Service, which has trained tens of thousands of people in the power of nonviolent change and which organizes Campaign Nonviolence, a long-term, nationwide effort seeking to foster a more nonviolent culture free from war, poverty, racism, and environmental destruction.

In recent years, Ken works with Pax Christi International's Catholic Nonviolence Initiative and the Vatican to promote Gospel nonviolence literally around the world through the Catholic church. He has published seven books, including Pilgrimage through a Burning World: Spiritual Practice and Nonviolent Protest at the Nevada Test Site; Nonviolent Lives; and From Violence to Wholeness. Ken earned his Ph.D. in the Historical and Cultural Studies of Religions at the Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley, California. He lives in Chicago with his wife Cynthia and daughter Leah.

He shares with me his spiritual awakening as a young man and how it changed his life path and led him to take part in anti nuclear weapon demonstrations.

Dan shares with me: "I wasn't particularly political, but I was distressed by nuclear weapons, so I called Daniel Berrigan and asked to visit him when I was going to be in New York City. He invited me over. I was transformed in those 3 hours." Listen as he tells us how Dan Berrigan clarifies why Ken should in nonviolent organization.

When describing his leadership in various campaigns, he keeps returning to the refrain:

"We have more power than we think.” “

We stopped the official U.S. invasion of Nicaragua because of ordinary people power….Through the Nevada Desert Experience, by 1993, after over 25,000 were arrested at the Test site, we generated enough people power to get a test-ban treaty promulgated and signed by over 187 nations.

Through the Declaration of Peace, we helped end the U.S. war in Iraq in the mid-2000s.”

Be inspired and motivated by this conversation with this amazing human being who believes:

"We need each other, we need to be rooted in prayer, we need to follow the nonviolent Jesus, and create conditions for a global shift.”

Check out: www.paceebene.org

Philip Berrigan’s “Ministry of Risk” with Brad Wolf

By John Dear

On this week’s episode of “The Nonviolent Jesus Podcast,” I welcome former prosecutor, professor, community college dean, and now full-time activist Brad Wolf from Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

Brad is executive director of Peace Action Network of Lancaster; co-coordinator of “The Merchant of Death War Crimes Tribunal;” and current chair of the U.S. organizing committee for the “People’s Tribunal on the Korean Victims of the 1945 Atomic Bombings.”

Brad recently edited the first ever collection of writings on peace and nonviolence by legendary activist Philip Berrigan, called A Ministry of Risk (Fordham University Press).

Brad tells me why his writings are so important, and how Philip and his brother Dan Berrigan were the St Peter and St Paul of their day as nonviolent activists:

With his brother Daniel, he was a leading voice and organizer against the Vietnam War in the 1960s and 1970s. By the time of his death in 2002, he spent over 11 years of his life in prison for acts of nonviolent civil disobedience against warmaking and nuclear weapons.

We discuss Phil’s leadership and daring actions from the Baltimore Four action in 1967, the Catonsville Nine action in 1968, and to the 1980 Plowshares disarmament action and the other plowshares actions Phil did, including one with John in December 1993.

Brad tells how during the pandemic, he read through Phil’s archives at Cornel and DePaul, and how on the first day, he found a quote from Phil that became the title of his book: “A ministry of risk goes unerringly to the side of the victims, to those threatened or destroyed by greed, prejudice, and war. From the side of those victims, it teaches two simple, indispensable lessons: first, that we all belong in the ditch, or in the breach, with the victims; and second that until we go to the ditch or into the breach, victimizing will not cease.”

“Phil was not fazed by anything,” Brad says. "You have to be faithful enough to suffer and daring enough to serve," Phil wrote. "Obeying God's Word can get you killed."

Reflecting on his long friendship with Phil and Dan, John added that they were the most “biblical” Christians he ever knew, who read the Bible day and night, and spent every day trying to obey the Word of God.

Brad talks about a question Phil put to a youth retreat in the late 1950s, a question that came to haunt him and motivate him for the rest of his life. “What does Christ ask of me?” Brad concludes that Phil would want us to wrestle with that question, and take new risks for peace and justice, to go into the breach, and follow the journey of the nonviolent Jesus. Listen in and be inspired! And check out:

www.philipberrigan.com

www.danielberrigan.org

www.merchantsofdeath.org

www.beatitudescenter.org

*Note: Terry can sometimes be difficult to understand due to a medical condition: a written transcript of this episode is available for reading.

This week I welcome teacher, organizer and author, Terry Rynne, author of two important books, Jesus Christ Peacemaker, and Gandhi and Jesus” (Orbis Books).

Terry is a former priest from Chicago, who became a hospital administrator. Then from 1983-2003, he was President of Rynne Marketing Consulting Services which advised over 400 hospitals, in 48 states, over the 20 years.

In 2006, he received his PhD in Theology from Marquette University, and then in 2008, he co-founded, with his wife Sally, the Center for Peacemaking at Marquette University, which has gone on to make a huge difference in Milwaukee teach nonviolent conflict resolution skills in schools. For years, he has taught the Introduction to Peace Studies course at Marquette University. He is also chair of the Board of Beatitudes Center.

Terry speaks about the power of Gandhi’s salt march to mobilize the people of India to demand justice and independence, and in particular, the famous silent march to the Dharasana Salt Works, and how the world was shocked by the British response to the peaceful, unarmed, nonviolent movement.

“Jesus devoted his life to confronting the structures of oppression and violence and changing them,” he says. In the earliest Gospel, in one of his first public actions, Mark’s Jesus heals the man with the withered hand in the synagogue, and in the next sentence, we read that that the religious authorities met with the political leaders to plot the assassination of Jesus.

What did Jesus do? Terry asks. Why do they want to kill him? How are we to model his approach in our unjust world?

“Why did Jesus die?” Terry asks. "We, too, need to stand up, speak out and resist the structures of violence and oppression, even to the point of offending the powers that be".

Jesus also removed suffering from people; changed the culture's attitude towards violence; and turned enemies into friends. That’s his challenge for us.

“Nonviolence is at the heart of the gospel,” he concludes. “Nonviolence adds love even in the midst of conflict. These days, I have hope in the Catholic Church becoming a peaceful church that embraces nonviolence. We can get there.”

Listen in to this great teacher of nonviolence and be inspired!

For more information on the nonviolent Jesus: https://www.beatitudescenter.org