Steve DeFrank is a top New York painter with numerous one-person exhibitions and group exhibitions. His solo exhibitions include Clementine Gallery in New York, and the Clifford Smith Gallery in Boston. His group shows include the Smithsonian Institute’s National Portrait Gallery and The National Arts Club in New York, and many others. His work has been reviewed in The New York Times, in The New Yorker, and many others. He’s been a Visiting Artist at Cornell University, the Massachusetts College of Art, and he currently teaches at the School of Visual Arts in New York City, where he's taught sculpture, new media art, painting, drawing, and other courses.

In this conversation, DeFrank shares his insights on teaching creativity and the artistic process. He emphasizes the importance of focusing on the journey of creativity rather than the end product, encouraging students to embrace uncertainty and anxiety as part of their artistic growth. DeFrank discusses the significance of developing an "artistic eye" and the challenges students face in learning to see and interpret the world around them. He reflects on the transformative experience of the foundation year for art students and the ongoing dialogue between the artist's hand and eye. This is a brilliant inside view of a process-oriented approach to art that values exploration and personal expression.

For additional information:

Steve's web site: https://www.stevedefrank.com/

The book Learning to See, with many quotations from Steve and from other SVA artists and designers: www.learningtosee.net

Music by license from SoundStripe:

• "Uptown Lovers Instrumental" by AFTERNOONZ
• "Miss Missy" by AFTERNOONZ
• "What's the Big Deal" by Ryan Saranich

Copyright (c) 2025 Keith Sawyer

Scott Barry Kaufman is an influential psychologist, creativity researcher, podcaster, and best-selling book author. In this episode, we explore themes such as the messy nature of creative minds, the importance of incubation, and the role of daydreaming. We discuss the brain's imagination network and the balance between conscious and unconscious processes in fostering creativity. Scott emphasizes the significance of psychological flexibility and the ability to embrace uncertainty, while also highlighting the value of sensitivity in the creative process. Our discussion culminates in practical advice for enhancing creativity through openness to experience and reflective practices.

For more information:

Scott's web site

Scott's book Wired to Create: Unraveling the Mysteries of the Creative Mind

Scott's new book Rise Above

Music by license from SoundStripe:

• "Uptown Lovers Instrumental" by AFTERNOONZ
• "Miss Missy" by AFTERNOONZ
• "What's the Big Deal" by Ryan Saranich

Copyright (c) 2025 Keith Sawyer

Kelly Leonard has been involved with improv comedy for almost 40 years. He's worked with actors and comedians including Stephen Colbert, Tina Fey, Keegan Michael Key, Seth Meyers and Amy Poehler. He started working at the Second City Theater in Chicago in 1988, eventually becoming producer in 1992, and later, taking on roles and titles including Executive Director, Executive Vice President, and Creative Adviser. Since 2016, he’s been Vice President of Creative Strategy, Innovation, and Business Development. He’s produced hundreds of original revues. His 2015 book Yes, And received rave reviews in Vanity Fair and the Washington Post. He co-leads a new partnership with Booth School at the University of Chicago that studies behavioral science through the lens of improvisation. He is a popular speaker, appearing at Aspen Ideas Festival, Chicago Ideas Week and TEDxBroadway and hosts the Second City Works/WGN Podcast “Getting to Yes, And.”

For additional information:

• Kelly's web site
• The book Yes, And

Music by license from SoundStripe:

• "Uptown Lovers Instrumental" by AFTERNOONZ
• "Miss Missy" by AFTERNOONZ
• "What's the Big Deal" by Ryan Saranich

Copyright (c) 2025 Keith Sawyer