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The Transaction

The Transaction

Auteur(s): Craig Rosenberg & Matt Amundson | B2B Sales & Marketing Experts - Hosts of The Transaction
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 Welcome to The Transaction. The #1 Go-To-Market podcast on the planet. Hosts Craig Rosenberg and Matt Amundson, two legendary go-to-market leaders in their own right, talk weekly with the best sales, marketing, operations, and product leaders in the B2B SaaS world to understand what's working in the new playbook of the post-ZIRP market. But Craig, Matt, and their guests don't just talk theoretically, they share the stories and actionable tips, tactics, and strategies behind what's driving revenue growth that you can take and implement in your own go-to-market roles. Whether you're a Chief Revenue Officer leading a B2B SaaS sales and marketing organization, a marketing leader trying to drive bigger outcomes with your demand gen team, or a new sales rep, you'll learn and laugh every episode. From ABM to PLG, from MEDDIC to MEDDPICC, the world of business is constantly evolving. We’ll cover the who, what, where, when, why and most importantly how you get… The Transaction. About Your Hosts Craig Rosenberg is the Chief Platform Officer at Scale Venture Partners. He is a seasoned expert in B2B revenue growth, helping SaaS companies transition from founder-led growth to becoming high-growth Go-To-Market machines. Previously, Craig was a Distinguished VP Analyst at Gartner and co-founder of TOPO Inc., a research and advisory firm acquired by Gartner in 2020. Craig thinks Die Hard is a Christmas movie. Matt Amundson is the Chief Marketing Officer of DuploCloud. He is also an advisor for companies such as Sendoso and Salesloft. Prior to DuploCloud, Matt spent time as an Executive In Residence with Scale Venture Partners and led marketing departments at Census, Very Good Security, and Everstring, to name a few. Matt thinks Die Hard 2 is better than Die Hard. The Transaction is produced by Sam Guertin.The Transaction Économie
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  • Escaping B2B SaaS Dashboard Hell with Ray Rike & Dave Kellogg - Ep 70

    Escaping B2B SaaS Dashboard Hell with Ray Rike & Dave Kellogg - Ep 70
    Dec 8 2025
    If you feel like your pipeline is broken, your CAC is bloated, and your dashboards are lying to you… you’re FAR from the only one. Joining the show are the Metrics Brothers, Ray Rike and Dave Kellogg! Ray is the Founder & Chief Evangelism Officer of Benchmarkit, Host of Metrics That Measure Up, a Founding Member of the SaaS Metrics Standards Board, and is an LP at Stage 2 Capital.Dave co-hosts The Metrics Brothers Podcast, writes the incomparable ‘Kellblog’, and is an EIR at Balderton Capital.Dave and Ray join co-hosts Matt Amundson and Craig Rosenberg to discuss the importance of brand investment in the AI age, overcoming the pipeline generation crisis in B2B SaaS, and how GTM leaders can drain the “metrics swamp.”Plus, Dave divulges which SaaS metrics he finds loathsome and Ray shares his unique method for calculating Marketing CAC.Also, Craig airs an ambrosia-related grievance, Matt unveils an old school tactic he’s still using, and Producer Sam falsely announces an exclusive scoop on The Transaction. Critical TakeawaysTreat answer engine optimization (AEO) as a real channel, not a buzzword. As answer engines and generative AI search tools aggregate from dozens of sources but surface only a few. Meaning that you either show up in the top 2-3 responses or you effectively disappear. Teams should build use-case-level content, distribute it widely, and make it novel enough that answer engines want to quote it, while also building their own audience (newsletter, podcast, communities) so they’re not fully dependent on Google’s (or ChatGPT’s) algorithm.Inbound hand-raisers are a much better primary brand KPI than ‘share of voice’ measurements. Watch what percent of qualified pipeline and new ARR comes from inbound hand-raisers. GTM leaders should explicitly target a higher share of pipeline from inbound, track its close rates and ACVs versus outbound, and use that to justify continued brand and content investment.Focus more on the number of opportunities and cost per opportunity, not just total pipe. Revenue teams should watch both volume and dollars by source, so they can see, for example, whether brand-driven inbound is generating fewer but much better-quality opportunities and adjust their mix and SLAs accordingly.If you want overall efficiency, use Marketing CAC (sales + marketing over new ARR); if you want to compare programs, use pipeline generated divided by demand-gen program spend only. GTM leaders should keep CAC reserved for the full go-to-market machine, then use pipe-to-spend for campaign and channel decisions, excluding fixed headcount so they understand the ROI of the next incremental dollar.Sales and marketing leaders must acknowledge the current “pipeline crisis” in B2B SaaS, characterized by insufficient pipeline coverage and declining efficiency. Teams should track both the volume and cost of pipeline generated, and forecast pipeline coverage across all sources (marketing, SDRs, alliances, PLG, etc.) early and often.Aligning on metrics is a long-term, iterative process that requires persistence and cross-functional buy-in. Chapters00:00 Episode Preview01:48 Introducing Ray Rike and Dave Kellogg, The Metrics Brothers05:40 How GTM Leaders can Escape from their ‘Dashboard Hell’11:08 Which Metrics Matter to Your Board18:37 Overcoming The B2B SaaS Pipeline Crisis24:38 The Difference Between Search Engine Optimization & Answer Engine Optimization29:52 Why Brand Still Matters in the age of AI & How to Measure Brand45:21 Why B2B Marketers Need to Measure both Opportunity Count & Cost Per Opportunity47:38 Why Pipeline Coverage Ratio is so Critical for B2B SaaS Startups51:21 Examining Tantalus & The Cultural Impact of Ambrosia in All of Its FormsJoin our Newsletter to get bonus content & never miss an episode: https://thetransaction.substack.com/Epic Quotes“The faster growing companies actually are spending more on brand than on demand.” - Ray Rike“ My least favorite SaaS metric? Rolling four-quarter pipeline.” - Dave Kellogg“ Branding is marketing without a call to action.” - Dave KelloggConnect with Ray & DaveRay’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rayrike/ Dave’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kelloggdave/ The Metrics Brother Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-metrics-brothers-fka-saas-talk/id1687214133 Metrics that Measure Up Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/metrics-that-measure-up/id1525571613 Benchmarkit Website: https://www.benchmarkit.ai/ Dave’s Blog: https://kellblog.com/ Balderton Capital: https://www.balderton.com/ ShoutoutsRay’s first Episode on The Transaction: https://open.substack.com/pub/thetransaction/p/harnessing-the-magic-of-metrics-with Avinash Kaushik: https://www.linkedin.com/in/akaushik/ Avinash’s Newsletter: https://www.kaushik.net/avinash/marketing-analytics-intersect-newsletter/ Avinash’s SEO vs AEO article: https://www.kaushik.net/avinash/...
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    56 min
  • Account Management is Your Startup’s Growth Department with Alex Raymond, Founder of AMplify - Ep 69

    Account Management is Your Startup’s Growth Department with Alex Raymond, Founder of AMplify - Ep 69
    Nov 18 2025
    With so much attention within the go-to-market world paid to marketing and sales, account management, which is arguably just as important, rarely gets its due.Alex Raymond is the Founder of AMplify and Host of the Account Management Secrets podcast. Alex joins co-hosts Matt Amundson and Craig Rosenberg for the first major discussion on the podcast of account management and its crucial role in growing revenue and overall company value for SaaS vendors. Plus, Alex breaks down how CROs should organize their team, what types of people make for the best account managers, and why in-depth stakeholder mapping of customer accounts is so critical to growing revenue. Also, Craig mixes up country singers, Matt discovers a great path, and Producer Sam compares someone’s comment to military ordinance. Critical TakeawaysAccount management should be positioned as the "growth department" of your company, responsible for driving profitable revenue from existing customers. Shift the mindset from reactive support to proactive growth, ensuring account managers are empowered and resourced to expand accounts, not just retain them.Start building account management capabilities early, even before you hit $10M in revenue, so you can learn from customers, reduce churn, and set the foundation for compounding growth. Don’t wait until churn or customer growth becomes a problem you’re hearing about in your board meetings.Ambiguity about who owns customer growth leads to missed opportunities. Great account managers are creative problem solvers with strong business sense, often with consulting backgrounds. They should be able to see the big picture, ask insightful questions, and build long-term relationships, rather than just focusing on renewals or incremental expansions. PS: former consultants make for great AMs.Build Robust Stakeholder Maps and Engage at Multiple Levels.Vendors need to actually do QBRs (Quarterly Business Reviews). Go talk to your darn customers.Chapters00:00 - Episode Preview01:00 - Trouble with Tickets03:44 - Introducing Alex Raymond, Founder of AMplify05:59 - The Role of Account Management in The Growth of B2B Startups12:27 - The Power of Exponential Thinking for Entrepreneurs16:01 - A Quick Sidebar about Business Events and Dining in Boulder19:31 - Why Account Management is a Revenue Function & When Your Startup Needs Account Managers29:15 - Where Account Management Should Fit in Your Revenue Team’s Organizational Design 36:26 - What To Look for When Hiring Great Account Managers42:03 - When Account Managers Should Be Brought into New Deals49:13 - Developing Complex Stakeholder Maps for Customer AccountsJoin our Newsletter to never miss an episode & get bonus content: https://thetransaction.substack.com/Epic Quotes“ The CRO should be managing the entirety of their revenue cycle, not just some slice of it.” - Alex Raymond“ Land and expand has never been more important than it is right now.” - Alex Raymond“ I just never, ever want to be a CEO.” - Matt AmundsonConnect with AlexLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/afraymond/ Website: https://www.amplifyam.com/ Podcast: https://www.amplifyam.com/podcast ShoutoutsCraig’s Episode on Alex’s Podcast: https://www.amplifyam.com/account-management-secrets/why-post-sale-is-still-broken-and-what-to-do-about-it-craig-rosenberg Mike Rapp: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelrapp-intelepeer/ Alex’s Episode with Mike Rapp: https://www.amplifyam.com/account-management-secrets/serve-retain-sell-how-account-management-builds-revenue-leaders-mike-rapp Dr. Benjamin Hardy: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drbenjaminhardy/ Conscious Entrepreneur Summit: https://consciousentrepreneur.us/ The Science of Scaling by Dr. Benjamin Hardy & Blake Erickson: https://a.co/d/eTUlHeV 10x is Easier Than 2x by Dan Sullivan & Dr. Benjamin Hardy: https://a.co/d/1kf8tSe Love the show? Give us a shoutout on LinkedIn and tell us what you loved!
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    59 min
  • Agentic AI VS ABM & AI Pricing Explained with Gabe Larsen, Chief Revenue Officer of Signals - Ep 68

    Agentic AI VS ABM & AI Pricing Explained with Gabe Larsen, Chief Revenue Officer of Signals - Ep 68
    Oct 31 2025

    The immense hype around AI agents is positively palpable, but is there value in adopting an army of AI minions today or is the promise of agentic AI still fictitious pulp?


    Here to help illuminate and elucidate the role of AI agents is Gabe Larsen, the Chief Revenue Officer at Signals and the former Chief Marketing Officer of Kustomer.


    Gabe joins co-hosts Matt Amundson and Craig Rosenberg for a deep dive into how agentic AI coupled with signal-based marketing succeeds in go to market where Account-Based Marketing failed in its execution. We get into whether startups should build or buy the tools they need, which new metrics your board might be looking for, and what customers really want to hear about from vendors.


    Plus, Gabe bids goodbye to the age of software tools while welcoming in the AI-powered teammate economy.


    Also, Craig vehemently denies accusations of scowling, Matt shares his preferences on the intricacies of the English language, and Producer Sam asks a dumb question.


    Critical Takeaways

    • Agentic AI tools need to provide omni-channel execution in order to offer real value and impact to sales and marketing teams.
    • The combination of Signals + Agents outperforms Account-Based Marketing in the way it has been traditionally deployed. However, the core ideas of ABM, such as Ideal Customer Profiles, Target Accounts, Personalization, etc., still hold true. In fact, the advances in AI-powered martech have now made the original promise and vision of ABM possible.
    • In the build vs buy debate, much of what has been built and is being built in-house is far too brittle to accommodate the regular use of a revenue team. You don’t want your whole custom-built workflow to break every time someone makes a minor change to something as small as an email subject line. However, the solutions that are going to succeed and ultimately be bought must be capable of handling the custom needs and workflows of the users. If the available tools are too rigid for customers, then they will look to build their own workarounds, solutions, and eventually, replacement tools.
    • As the “customization economy” takes hold, go-to-market teams should seek vendors that offer flexible, customizable solutions rather than rigid, templatized products. From the vendor side, take note that buyers are gravitating toward platforms that allow them to tailor workflows to their unique needs, and if you fail to provide this flexibility, you will be left behind.
    • Customers crave real guidance from vendors, not just hype about the new features you added. The most successful vendors will be those who offer clear, prescriptive playbooks and best practices (Think HubSpot or Marketo).

    Chapters

    00:00 - Episode Preview

    02:16 - Introducing Gabe Larsen, the Chief Revenue Officer of Signals

    04:53 - Learning The Costly Difference between Michael and Michelle

    09:23 - Catastrophic Sales Kickoff Stories

    14:26 - The Dim Sum Disaster

    17:29 - Why Signals-based Marketing + AI Agents are outperforming Traditional Account-Based Marketing

    26:15 - Builders versus Buyers & Why Tools are Out and Teammates are In

    31:56 - The Role of AI in Modern B2B Marketing

    45:01 - The Future of AI-Powered Workforces

    48:14 - An AI Vendor's Perspective on Pricing for AI Tools & AI Agents


    Sign up for our Newsletter: https://thetransaction.substack.com/


    Epic Quotes

    • “The market’s separating into builders and buyers and I think we’re establishing more buyers.” - Gabe Larsen
    • “ Tools are gone, teammates are in.” - Gabe Larsen
    • “This is the customization economy” - Craig Rosenberg


    Connect with Gabe

    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gabelarsen/
    • Signals Website: https://getsignals.ai/


    Shoutouts

    • David Boskovic: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dboskovic/
    • David’s Boskovic’s episode: https://open.substack.com/pub/thetransaction/p/building-an-ai-first-go-to-market


    Love the show? Give us a shoutout on LinkedIn and tell us what you loved!
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    56 min
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