Episodes

  • On Our Best Behavior: Elise Loehnen Pushes Back on the Patriarchal Narrative

    On Our Best Behavior: Elise Loehnen Pushes Back on the Patriarchal Narrative
    May 15 2024
    In this episode of the Matriarchy series, we explore how deeply ingrained patriarchal narratives can create a policing effect on the behavior of women. Author, Elise Loehnen, discusses her book "On Our Best Behavior" which examines how concepts like the seven deadly sins have historically been used to restrict women's behavior and police their adherence to an idealized form of "goodness." Loehnen unpacks the insidious ways women are culturally conditioned from a young age to suppress normal human drives like anger, ambition, and sexuality. And how disrupting rigid gender stereotypes is important when raising the next generation in order to build a more compassionate world. Jen and Elise discuss: How women are culturally conditioned and expected to embody "goodness" while men are oriented toward power How concepts like the "seven deadly sins" have historically been used as a patriarchal "punch card" to police women's behavior Why raising boys to have an emotional inner life nurtures positive identity development The current era of politics that calls for women to challenge the patriarchal system while also having compassionate dialogue to build a new, care-centered world where everyone can flourish * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Women are trained for goodness and men are trained for power.” - Elise Loehnen “The worst thing for a woman is reputational harm--just the assigning of her badness. Bad mother. Toxic coworker. Toxic boss. Unkind. She says the wrong thing. And it's sort of impossible to defend yourself against that. We have zero tolerance, and it's very scary.” - Elise Loehnen "We need a culture where the men are like, 'I would like to be more like women. I need to be caring. I want to be nurturing and creative. And yes, I can be strong and I can be masculine, but I also need this underdeveloped muscle.'" - Elise Loehnen Resources Mentioned in This Episode: On Our Best Behavior by Elise Loehnen - https://bit.ly/44tz41D Goop - https://goop.com For the Love of Being Seen and Heard ft. Lori Gottlieb - https://bit.ly/4b8YT9C Maybe You Should Talk to Someone by Lori Gottlieb - https://bit.ly/3JO7FOn Evagrius Ponticus (Fourth Century Christian Monk) - https://bit.ly/4b7zEV5 Pope Gregory on the 7 Deadly Sins - https://bit.ly/3y1J1XK Harvey Weinstein Abuse Cases - https://bit.ly/4b5ktM5 Carol Gilligan - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Gilligan In a Different Voice by Carol Gilligan - https://bit.ly/3JQ9IBh Human Voice by Carol Gilligan - https://bit.ly/3UQ1Rcn Andrew Tate - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Tate Order, Disorder, Reorder (An idea Developed by Richard Rohr) - https://bit.ly/44xzHqK For the Love of The Enneagram ft. Richard Rohr - https://bit.ly/3QzzZaW Loretta Ross - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loretta_Ross Guest’s Links: Elise’s Website - https://www.eliseloehnen.com/ Elise’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/eliseloehnen/ Elise’s Twitter - https://www.twitter.com/eloehnen Elise’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/EliseLoehnen/ Elise’s LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/elise-loehnen-b867523/ Pulling the Thread (Elise’s Stubstack Blog) - https://eliseloehnen.substack.com/ Pulling the Thread (Elise’s Podcast) - https://www.eliseloehnen.com/episodes Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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    52 mins
  • [BONUS] Jen Hatmaker Book Club ft. Violeta by Isabel Allende

    [BONUS] Jen Hatmaker Book Club ft. Violeta by Isabel Allende
    May 10 2024
    Jen and Isabel Allende discuss her novel, Violeta, and why Allende makes her bold choices in characters, events, and settings. Allende shares her fascinating personal background - born in Peru, living as a refugee, and eventually immigrating to the U.S. where she began her writing career. Allende explains how Violeta's story was inspired by her own mother's life and letters, which Allende has meticulously preserved over decades. The author discusses how Violeta's complicated romantic relationships and experiences of political upheaval mirror Allende's own life. Particularly compelling moments include: Allende's description and showing of the extensive archive of her mother's letters The author's insights on the challenges women writers face, having to work harder than men to achieve respect Allende's personal experiences with family tragedy that informed the novel The author's delight in crafting the "villain" character of Julián, as well as the beloved nanny character based on Allende's own housekeeper Overall, you’ll hear a dynamic conversation between Jen and Isabel on life, love, and loss. Novel Summary: The novel follows the life of Violeta, who is born in 1920 in the aftermath of World War I and the onset of Spanish flu pandemic. The story traces Violeta's tumultuous life as she navigates historic events, including the Great Depression forcing her family into poverty and a relocation to a remote part of their South American homeland. Structured through a series of letters Violeta writes to her grandson, the narrative portrays her resilience, passion, and humor against the backdrop of major 20th century historical events and upheavals, including women's rights struggles. The story arcs through Violeta's experiences of love, heartbreak, and the ebb and flow of wealth, set against the sweeping historical context of an unnamed South American country. * * * Guest’s Links: Isabel’s Website - https://www.isabelallende.com/en Isabel’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/allendeisabel/ Isabel’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/isabellallende Isabel’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/isabelallende/ Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode: List of Isabel’s Books - https://www.isabelallende.com/en/books Violeta by Isabel Allende - ​​https://www.isabelallende.com/en/book/violeta James by Percival Everett - https://www.amazon.com/James-Novel-Percival-Everett/dp/0385550367 Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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    53 mins
  • [BONUS] A Year Lost and Found: Brittney Griner's Story of Survival

    [BONUS] A Year Lost and Found: Brittney Griner's Story of Survival
    May 9 2024
    For this special bonus episode, Jen talks with WNBA star, Brittney Griner, who shares her powerful story of resilience after she was wrongfully detained in Russian prisons for nearly a year. Brittney provides a heartbreaking firsthand account of the inhumane conditions she endured, from the lack of legal rights and translators to cruel psychological tactics by guards. She opens up about the pivotal role her faith played in giving her mental strength to survive. Brittney also discusses the ongoing trauma she has faced since returning home, and the renewed sense of motivation to use her voice and platform to advocate for other detainees abroad still seeking freedom. Jen and Brittney discuss: Griner's harrowing account of being imprisoned in Russia and how she’s fighting to get more US prisoners home The pivotal role her faith and reading the Bible played in giving her strength to survive mentally and emotionally. Her candid discussion of the ongoing trauma she's working through since returning to the U.S. Her optimism about the WNBA's rising popularity to force meaningful change in addressing the glaring pay gap with men's basketball. Thought-Provoking Quotes: "My biggest fear was the fear of being forgotten." - Brittney Griner "We feel like we're in control a lot in our everyday lives. But being over there, I was in a place where I needed help. I couldn't control anything. It was out of my hands. I had to rely on something, or I would have gone crazy...I would have Bible study on Sundays and I think that's what got me through, honestly." - Brittney Griner "We need everybody to buy into [the WNBA]. We need to challenge companies to stop just checking a box and saying, 'Oh, we fight for equality. We had a month. We had some shirts.' That's a step. But we need you to put dollars down to make a difference." - Brittney Griner Resources Mentioned in this Bonus Episode: Caitlin Clark - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caitlin_Clark “It Gets Better Project” - https://bit.ly/4al2EaZ Coming Home by Brittney Griner - https://www.amazon.com/Coming-Home-Brittney-Griner/dp/0593801342 Guest Link: Website - https://wearebg.org/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/brittneyyevettegriner Twitter - https://twitter.com/brittneygriner Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/BrittneyGriner Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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    39 mins
  • Summoning Resilience In Our Darkest Times: Bozoma Saint John on Loss and Motherhood

    Summoning Resilience In Our Darkest Times: Bozoma Saint John on Loss and Motherhood
    May 8 2024
    Continuing In our For the Love of The Matriarchy series, Jen talks with powerful women who are taking innovative approaches to their work, their relationships, and their joy. Bozoma Saint John is a trailblazing marketing executive whose career has taken her to the heights of companies like Pepsi, Apple, Uber and Netflix. But her path to becoming a "badass" has been one marked by profound loss and upheaval. From the loss of her first child and her husband's battle with cancer, to being told she's "too much" by those closest to her, Bozoma opens up about summoning resilience from life's lowest lows. She discusses redefining what true strength looks like, embracing authenticity even when it ruffles the status quo, and pioneering a collaborative model of single parenthood that makes space for her daughter's voice. Jen and Bozoma discuss: Embracing authenticity even when it ruffles the status quo and offends those in power Redefining strength not as impenetrable toughness, but as the pliability in experiencing brokenness yet still rising again The complexities of reconciling life's tragedies with its gifts and holding space for gratitude amid loss Pioneering a collaborative, trust-based model of single parenthood that makes space for her daughter's voice and needs For anyone craving inspiration to honor their scars while uncompromisingly claiming their power, this is a master class. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Privilege is a reliable enemy of equality. And it is sometimes insidious the lengths we’ll go to protect it because we're still benefiting [from it].” - Bozoma Saint John "You don't have to have had the same losses I've had or suffered the same way I suffered to prove that you are worthy of the scars that you bear. You have them and it's okay." - Bozoma Saint John “My parenting has changed because I need to make space for [my daughter] to be honest with me about what she needs so that I can be the mother that she needs; not necessarily the mother that I think is needed.” - Bozoma Saint John "The most amazing thing about being human is how incredibly tied we are to each other. And it is a beautiful thing that even through our pain, we are still tied together as human beings." - Bozoma Saint John Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Bozoma’s Marketing Hall of Fame Induction: https://marketinghalloffame.org/inductees-leading-marketers/bozoma-saint-john-2022-marketing-inductee/ 2021 Most Influential CMO: https://www.forbes.com/connect/event/2021-wmi-cmos/ Ambassador to the African Diaspora and Special Envoy to the President of Ghana: https://bit.ly/4bhmVig. Guest’s Links: Bozoma’s Website: https://www.bozomasaintjohn.com/ Bozoma’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SaintBoz Bozoma’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/badassboz Bozoma’s Instagram: http://instagram.com/badassboz Bozoma’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bozoma-saint-john-0305441/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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    1 hr and 5 mins
  • Breaking Free From Patriarchal Rule: Cait West’s Escape from Spiritual Abuse

    Breaking Free From Patriarchal Rule: Cait West’s Escape from Spiritual Abuse
    May 1 2024
    Welcome to the For The Love of The Matriarchy series where we’ll explore all the different aspects of women working to embrace agency and celebrating their worth. As we celebrate the power of women and their accomplishments, we’ll also look at the challenges women have faced in a patriarchal society (and still face) and what that means for their bodies and autonomy. Cait West is an author who grew up in an extreme patriarchal Christian community. She was taught from a young age that her sole purpose was to become a submissive wife and mother. This pervasive sense of having no agency or control over her own life, combined with the constant messaging that she was inherently sinful and unworthy, took a profound toll on Cait's mental health, causing severe anxiety and depression from a very young age. Jen and Cait delve into how families can fall into toxic belief systems, and what recovery can look like. Jen and Cait discuss: The impact of being raised in a fundamentalist, patriarchal environment that severely restricts a woman's autonomy, education, and life choices. The healing power of finding community, sharing one's story, and reclaiming agency after experiencing spiritual abuse and trauma. The difficult but important choice of breaking free from oppressive systems, even when it means severing ties with your own family * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: "[My husband] has always been my steady companion because he experienced some of that verbal abuse from my dad, and he knew what it was like...When I would have anxiety attacks, he didn't understand what was going on either, but he would just sit with me until I could get through it and come back to regulate my nervous system. He just was there with me through it. And that meant more than having someone try to fix it or totally tell me what to do." - Cait West "I realized I had a story to tell. Going to writing conferences and learning from other writers like you who were talking about speaking up for injustice, I decided to tell part of my story online. I started doing that around 2018 and realized there's a lot more people who've been through this and they've just been silenced or afraid — people who if they say something, their family's going to cut them off. That's what happened to me in 2019. I had an interview and I started talking online about my experience and my dad decided not to talk to me anymore. I understand that fear but once I lost that relationship, I felt liberated to tell my story. Because somebody has to. Somebody has to say something." - Cait West "Cait's my real first name, and then West is my grandmother's — what we call the maiden name. It's always resonated with me, my mother's heritage, because they're Southerners, they grew up in poverty. The women in my family have always been the leaders and the strong people of faith. And so to me, it's kind of like calling back to that heritage and recognizing it and trying to hold on to some kind of legacy after losing so much of my life." - Cait West Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Christian Patriarchy Movement - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_patriarchy Tears of Eden (Nonprofit for survivors of spiritual abuse - https://www.tearsofeden.org/ Rift: A Memoir by Cait West - https://www.caitwest.com/book Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.caitwest.com/ Twitter - https://bit.ly/3UytS9l Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/caitwestwrites/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/caitwestwrites/?hl=en TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@caitwestwrites Substack - https://caitwest.substack.com/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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    1 hr and 4 mins
  • The Only Constant is You: Navigating Life's Changes with Najwa Zebian

    The Only Constant is You: Navigating Life's Changes with Najwa Zebian
    Apr 24 2024
    In our lives, we are often confronted with moments of profound change - whether it's the result of circumstances beyond our control, or a deliberate choice to step into something new. During these pivotal transitions, it can be tempting to focus on pleasing others or trying to meet the expectations of our family, friends, and community. However, truly transformative growth requires the courage to choose ourselves and to trust our inner wisdom. Author and activist, Najwa Zebian, offers a powerful example of what it looks like to reclaim one's autonomy in the face of a lifetime of feeling out of place and unworthy. Her journey of self-discovery provides a roadmap for navigating change with conviction, self-compassion, and a commitment to living one's truth. Jen and Najwa explore: The profound impact of emotional neglect and feeling out of place can deeply shape one's self-worth and choices later in life. Connecting with the power of language and self-expression can be a vital lifeline and pathway to healing. Making bold choices for oneself can be a necessary and courageous act of self-preservation. Allowing one's "world to revolve around you" and trusting your own inner wisdom is essential for navigating life's changes and uncertainties with conviction and self-compassion. Author Bio Dr. Najwa Zebian is a Lebanese-Canadian activist, author, speaker, and educator. Najwa began to write to connect with and help heal her first students, who were a group of young refugees. Through that effort with her students, she began a deep healing process for herself. She is the author of six books. She delivered the Ted Talk, “Finding Home Through Poetry.” She also recently launched a digital school called Soul Academy and a podcast called “In the Clear.” Her latest book is called “The Only Constant.” * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “Neglect isn't just about not getting your basic needs met. I think the most harmful neglect is not getting the things you do need." - Najwa Zebian "There was always this invitation to not allow myself to experience anger because it was a negative thing. But now I realize there's healthy anger; there's healthy resentment; and it's also healthy to project those feelings outwards. Otherwise, they're inside." - Najwa Zebian "I look at myself as a people pleaser — as somebody who's like, "I can't handle disappointing someone, I can't handle disappointing my family, I can't." But it got to a point where I was definitely willing to do that because I was so aware that continuing to live my life in a certain way meant that I was going to be suffering so much, and I wasn't willing to suffer in that way [anymore].” - Najwa Zebian Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Finding Home Through Poetry (Najwa’s Ted Talk) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNRygxe_8Ys Soul Academy (Najwa’s Digital School) - https://najwa-soul-academy.teachable.com/p/home In the Clear (Najwa’s Podcast) - https://najwazebian.com/podcasts The Only Constant by Najwa Zebian - https://najwazebian.com/the-only-constant Welcome Home by Najwa Zebian - https://najwazebian.com/welcome-home Hijab - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijab Mind Platter by Najwa Zebian - https://najwazebian.com/mind-platter Guest’s Links: Najwa’s Website - https://najwazebian.com/ Najwa’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/najwazebian Najwa’s Tik Tok - https://www.tiktok.com/@najwazebian Najwa’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/najwazebian1 Najwa’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/najwazebian Najwa’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/najwazebian Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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    1 hr and 2 mins
  • Introducing: Million Dollar Advice

    Introducing: Million Dollar Advice
    Apr 22 2024
    Million Dollar Advice is a work and career advice podcast hosted by friends and colleagues Kim Lessing and Kate Arend. Together, Kim and Kate run Amy Poehler’s Paper Kite Productions and are very cool and good at their jobs. Each week, they will help live callers with their work-related dilemmas. Whether you have a question or you just like listening to other people’s problems, this show will change your life. If you have a problem at work or a career question big or small, write in to milliondollaradvicepod@gmail.com or leave a message on the Million Dollar Advice Hotline (888) 799-6327. Kim and Kate can’t wait to give you some Million Dollar Advice! * * * Connect with Our Friends! Million Dollar Advice Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/million-dollar-advice/id1737475094 Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1 To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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    4 mins
  • Embracing Small Habits To Impact Who You Want to Become ft. James Clear

    Embracing Small Habits To Impact Who You Want to Become ft. James Clear
    Apr 17 2024
    Making a change in our lives can feel like a big, all encompassing thing; and sometimes we avoid change because of that very notion. But here’s some good news: making meaningful change in our lives actually starts with one small choice at a time, and it doesn’t have to be overwhelming or hard. This week, we’ve got the inside scoop on how to form habits that you actually want to stick with and someone who is going to let us in on the simple secrets to real and lasting change. James Clear is the bestselling author of “Atomic Habits.” His approach to building sustainable habits has resonated with millions, helping people make positive changes and reach their full potential. In this conversation, James shares personal stories and scientific principles to empower journeys of growth and transformation. Jen even shares her personal experience of choosing one small habit to do each day in the wake of her seismic divorce and how that choice radically affected the trajectory of her recovery. Jen and James explore: How to embrace a 1% improvement mindset - small, incremental changes compound over time and lead to meaningful results. The willingness to try different approaches and habits until you find what works for you Why we’ll be set up for success in the long run by having a toolbox of different strategies instead of adhering to specific “must-have” habits The importance of focusing on your identity and becoming the type of person you want to be, rather than just setting goals. No matter where you are in life —you have it within you to make meaningful and practical changes in your life. * * * Thought-Provoking Quotes: “There was a time in my life when I was forced to start small. So I was trying to find little wins; just something I could look at and be like 'Today was a good day.' I think that mindset ended up really helping me in later life." - James Clear "The whole world is going to emphasize your position and where you are. What I'm trying to emphasize is, "Are you getting 1% better? 1% worse? Is the arrow pointing up to the right, even if it's just a little bit? Or have you flatlined?" Because if you're on a good trajectory, all you need is time. All you need is patience. Time will magnify whatever you feed it." - James Clear “There is no one way to build better habits. There are many ways. My job is not to tell you how to do it. My job is to lay all the tools out on the table, rather than trying to tell you this is the way to build habits.” - James Clear “It's very easy, once you're listening to a conversation about habits or thinking about your own habits, to bite off more than you can chew, or start getting pulled in ten directions and be like; 'I'm going to change all ten of these things.' I think one good thing to remind yourself of is this energy will naturally extend into other areas of your life. So maybe take just one of those ten things and try to really master that.” - James Clear "There's this common advice that if something doesn't work, you should try, try, try again and I think the better advice is if something doesn't work, you should try, try, try differently." - James Clear Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Atomic Habits by James Clear: https://jamesclear.com/atomic-habits James Clear’s 3-2-1 Newsletter - https://jamesclear.com/3-2-1 Guest’s Links: James Clear’s Website - https://jamesclear.com/ James Clear’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jamesclear/ James Clear’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/JamesClear James Clear’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/jamesclear/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/ To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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    1 hr and 2 mins