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Rethinking Education

Rethinking Education

Written by: Dr James Mannion
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"Civilisation is a race between education and catastrophe." (HG Wells) In this podcast, we take Wells at his word. Hosted by Dr James Mannion and David Cameron, Rethinking Education features long-form conversations with fascinating guests about how we might create a more diverse, intelligent, responsive educational ecosystem that works for *all* young people. If this sounds interesting to you, welcome to Rethinking Education: Education's Critical Friend: https://rethinking-ed.org/podcastAll rights reserved
Episodes
  • "We need revolution, not evolution!" - Education of the Head, Heart and Hand, with Sarah Seleznyov and Liz Robinson

    "We need revolution, not evolution!" - Education of the Head, Heart and Hand, with Sarah Seleznyov and Liz Robinson
    Jul 20 2026
    Too many young people are getting a "desiccated" education – narrow, information-transfer schooling optimised for exams. In this episode, James and David are joined by Liz Robinson and Sarah Seleznyov of Big Education – the "feisty little multi-academy trust" behind School 21, School 360 and Surrey Square – to make the case for something bigger: an education of the head (academic learning), heart (wellbeing and relationships) and hand (creativity and skills). The conversation centres on the new book from the Rethinking School project, A Practical Guide to a Big Education: Balancing Head, Heart and Hand, edited by Sarah Seleznyov and Robert Lobatto – a collection of chapters written by school leaders and teachers who are actually doing this work, each paired with a vignette from another school and reflective questions to help you find your own way in. Not a recipe book, but an invitation to be a little bit braver. In this episode we explore: -Why pedagogy was written out of the Curriculum and Assessment Review – and why curriculum, pedagogy and assessment have to change together ("if you only pull one string in the marionette, it jerks") -England's uniquely narrow definition of curriculum and learning – and how it compares with models from around the world -What Big Education is, and what an education of the head, heart and hand actually means -The Milburn report on youth unemployment – and why the problems start in Year 1, not at upper secondary -Liz's "soapbox rant": Every Child Matters, extended schools, co-located services – and what was lost when it was all set on fire -Think systemically, act systematically: systems thinking, design thinking and vertical slice change teams Authentic leadership: vulnerability, ego, the kelp metaphor – and why Liz is learning to bring "Lizzie" to work -Being evidence-informed: why data is richer than numbers, the trouble with RCTs and the EEF toolkit, and engaging with research and in research -Interdisciplinary project-based learning – and the jaw-dropping story of the Ofsted inspector who withheld 'outstanding' because children didn't know their learning was called history -Can we teach and assess transferable competencies? And do we have to trade exam results for a broader education? (Spoiler: no) -Lessons from curriculum reform in Scotland, Wales and British Columbia – why transforming practice takes time, investment and serious professional development -Why we need revolution, not evolution About the guests Liz Robinson is co-founder and CEO of Big Education. She became a headteacher at 29, leading Surrey Square Primary in south London for many years, and created the Big Leadership Adventure. She advocates for – and models – an authentic, reflective and relational approach to leadership. Sarah Seleznyov is Strategic Project Lead at Big Education and leads the Rethinking School project. She has worked in London schools for over 25 years as a deputy head, school improvement consultant and teaching school director, and previously led research-informed leadership programmes at the UCL Institute of Education. Her research specialism is Japanese lesson study. Links Get the book: A Practical Guide to a Big Education: Balancing Head, Heart and Hand – https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/practical-guide-to-a-big-education-9781801997928/ Big Education: https://bigeducation.org The Rethinking School project (subsidised places available – get in touch!): https://bigeducation.org/rethinking-school/ Rethinking Assessment: https://rethinkingassessment.com Support the show This podcast is brought to you by Crown House Publishing. Get 20% off all titles at https://www.crownhouse.co.uk with the promo code REPOD20 (excludes bundles and existing promotions). Become a patron at https://www.patreon.com/repod or make a one-off donation at https://www.buymeacoffee.com/repod – and help us keep these conversations coming.
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    1 hr and 34 mins
  • The missing science of how we learn - and the “barefoot unschool” that’s already LIVING it

    The missing science of how we learn - and the “barefoot unschool” that’s already LIVING it
    Jun 25 2026
    This might be the most important conversation we've had on this podcast. There's a science of how human beings actually learn – and much of what happens in schools runs against the grain of it. In this episode, James is joined by affective neuroscience specialist Mike Goves and returning guest Kate McAllister, founder of the Hive in the Dominican Republic, to make that case from two directions at once: the research that explains it, and a school already living it. The core idea is deceptively simple: we learn what we care about, not what we're told. Mike makes the scientific case that affect – the felt sense of how good or bad something is – is biologically primary to all learning and memory. Kate offers the living proof: an environment she built, long before she had the vocabulary for it, around children's genuine curiosity and a daily practice of checking in on how they feel. When the science and the lived practice line up this precisely, it's hard to look at a normal classroom the same way again. Along the way we get into: - Why memory prioritises emotional salience over semantic accuracy – and why we reconstruct memories rather than retrieve them - The 'seesaw' model of attention: task focus (the executive control network) at one end, reflection and daydreaming (the default mode network) at the other, with the salience network as the pivot - The research suggesting that keeping young people permanently in task-focus mode may inhibit their development – linked to brain growth, wellbeing and life satisfaction well into their twenties - How narratives bind learning into identity, and why 'a person, a place, a problem' makes kids care about electrolysis - What this looks like in practice, from the freedom of the Hive to the real constraints of a 2,000-pupil urban secondary - A rich, wide-ranging conversation about emotion, meaning and what education could be if we took the biology seriously. Guests Mike Goves – psychology and neuroscience graduate turned teacher and school leader, now working at a multi-academy trust in Oxfordshire, with a growing focus on affect and affective neuroscience. He runs the Affective Learning Lab and has authored a white paper, The affective foundations of human learning, on the science discussed in this episode. Kate McAllister – founder of the Hive in the Dominican Republic and a long-time intuitive practitioner of affect-led, unschooling-inspired education. She returns to the podcast around five years after her first appearance. Links The Affective Learning Lab - https://affectivelearninglab.com White paper: The affective foundations of learning: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bCQYKfm5xbYmlrqG68sPlbbcyVjHrOSg/view Support #repod The Rethinking Education podcast is brought to you by Crown House Publishing. It is hosted by Dr James Mannion and David Cameron, and produced by Sophie Dean. This podcast is a labour of love, with the emphasis on both the labour and the love. If you’d like to support the podcast and convey your appreciation for these conversations, you can: Become a patron: https://www.patreon.com/repod Buy us a coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/repod
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    2 hrs and 4 mins
  • “Autonomy isn't ANARCHY!”: A conversation with Sophie Smith-Tong

    “Autonomy isn't ANARCHY!”: A conversation with Sophie Smith-Tong
    Jun 6 2026
    Sophie Smith-Tong joins James and David to discuss her book Teacher Autonomy: Where Has It Gone and Why We Need It Back – and the conversation is as rich, funny, and urgent as the title suggests. Sophie is a teacher of 16 years and mental health and wellbeing lead, who came to the question of autonomy through noticing the human cost of a system built on fear. In this episode, she makes the case that the loss of teacher autonomy isn't just a professional grievance – it's a structural wound that affects children's learning, teachers' wellbeing, and the long-term health of the profession. In this episode we explore: - Why only 18% of teachers strongly agree they have freedom over how they do their work – and why Sophie thinks fear is at the root of it - James Callaghan's 'secret garden' speech and the long arc of tightening control since the 1970s - The 'fidelity' culture: from scripted lessons to approved emails to clocks as cognitive overload - Why wellbeing training is a sticking plaster – and what addressing the actual disease might look like - David's 'good tired vs bad tired' distinction, and why autonomy determines which one you get - Sophie's definition of autonomy: not self-rule without support, but self-governance within a collective direction - 'Aligned autonomy', 'connected autonomy', and the difference between tight purpose and loose practice - The curriculum and assessment review: evolution when revolution was needed? - Child autonomy in early years – and why it gets educated out of children by year one - Peter Gray's five educative instincts: curiosity, playfulness, sociability, willfulness, and planfulness - Practical starting points for leaders and teachers: noticing, getting curious, making small changes -The inner work required of controlling leaders – and why self-compassion is the first step Find Sophie: teacherautonomy.com mindfulnessforlearning.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mforlearning/ Linked In: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sophie-smith-tong-7b3891207/ Get the book: Teacher Autonomy: Where Has It Gone and Why We Need It Back by Sophie Smith-Tong https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1032874589 Support #repod The Rethinking Education podcast is brought to you by Crown House Publishing. It is hosted by Dr James Mannion and David Cameron, and produced by Sophie Dean. This podcast is a labour of love, with the emphasis on both the labour and the love. If you’d like to support the podcast and convey your appreciation for these conversations, you can: Become a patron: https://www.patreon.com/repod Buy us a coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/repod
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