In the open, Nolan and Lily give tips on tapering. Nolan's quitting kratom book: https://a.co/d/b1cgJUJ

In the interview, David Hudnall, a journalist from the Kansas City Star, discusses his investigative reporting on 7-OH (7-hydroxymitragynine). The discussion covers the rapid rise of 7-OH in the U.S. market, particularly in Kansas City, and how is overtaking traditional kratom products in smoke shops and gas stations. The conversation highlights personal stories of addiction, the aggressive marketing tactics used by companies (such as free samples and loyalty programs), and the blurred lines between kratom and 7-OH in the marketplace.

7-OH and American Shaman - Part One ‘It’s addictive, and it’s everywhere’: KC company’s pills hook users across US” By David Hudnall September 18, 2025 https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article311991573.html

7-OH and American Shaman - Part Two From loans to hemp to smoke-shop opioids, KC businessman pushes legal limits By David Hudnall Updated September 17, 2025 https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article311969568.html

7-OH and American Shaman - Part Three ‘Sinister industry’: Kansas City company behind 7-OH & a growing opioid epidemic By David Hudnall Updated September 18, 2025 https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article311767920.html

Inside The Star How we reported on American Shaman, Vince Sanders & the debate around 7-OH By David Hudnall Updated September 17, 2025 11:08 AM https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/inside-the-star/article312119075.html

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Jacob and Lily talk getting into hobbies during recovery. In the interview, Justine shares her quitting kratom journey. She turned to kratom to manage pain and escalated into a serious health crisis that resulted in a lengthy hospitalization. Justine warns about the dangers of unregulated substances and encourages others to seek help and not try to quit alone.

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In this week's interview with Tori, an addiction professional in recovery, the growing presence of kratom in treatment settings is explored. She shares insights on client demographics, withdrawal symptoms, misconceptions about safety, and the importance of harm reduction and education, while also reflecting on her personal recovery journey and commitment to helping others.

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Charlie and Jacob speculate about what is in the kava-kratom tonics to make them more addictive for so many people. Lauren shares her journey with Jacob of nearly five years of daily kratom use that escalated from capsules to extracts, ending in secrecy, shame, and worsening depression. With the support of her therapist and doctor, she tapered off and quit on April 10, 2025, and now celebrates five months free, emphasizing mindset, community, and confidence in sober living.

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Lily's interview with Mckenzie’s followers her journey with kratom, beginning with an initial exposure through wellness marketing and the rapid progression from casual use to daily dependence. After repeated withdrawal attempts, the toll on her mental and physical health was immense, and ultimately finding recovery through a five-week holistic treatment program in Sedona. The discussion also explores her shift in perspective on wellness, authenticity, creativity, and ongoing recovery practices, offering insight and encouragement to others facing similar struggles. Guest's Substack:

Words from Wisdom | Kenzie Wisdom | Substack

https://mckenziewisdom.substack.com/

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Guest host Jazz (episode #41) talks with returning expert Dr. Casey Grover, an addiction medicine physician with both clinical expertise and lived experience of PTSD. Together, they explore the frequent intersection of trauma and addiction, breaking down how adverse childhood experiences, big “T” and little “t” traumas, and even intergenerational stress shape vulnerability to substance use. Dr. Grover discusses diagnostic criteria for PTSD, explains treatment approaches ranging from medications like prazosin and SSRIs to EMDR therapy and stellate ganglion blocks, and weighs in on newer options such as psychedelic-assisted therapy. The conversation also highlights the stigma around mental health in the medical community, the importance of trauma-informed care, and the healing potential of honesty and vulnerability. Resource links from episode:

Grover, Casey MD. Goodbye Emergency Medicine—I Wish I Could Say Thanks for the Memories. Emergency Medicine News 47(2):p 22, March 2025. DOI: 10.1097/01.EEM.0001108624.36353.82 https://journals.lww.com/em-news/fulltext/2025/03000/goodbye_emergency_medicine_i_wish_i_could_say.14.aspx

DSM-5 diagnostic criteria for PTSD: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK207191/

Addiction Medicine Made Easy (Dr. Grover’s podcast) https://addictionmedicinemadeeasy.com

MDCalc – Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACE) Calculator https://www.mdcalc.com

Last Day Podcast – Episode with Dr. Gabor Maté https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/addiction-17-trauma-with-dr-gabor-mat%C3%A9/id1468896686?i=1000488387968

Book: What Happened to You? (Oprah & Bruce Perry) https://www.oprahdaily.com/what-happened-to-you

Book: The Body Keeps the Score (Bessel van der Kolk) https://www.besselvanderkolk.com/resources/the-body-keeps-the-score

GeneSight – Pharmacogenomic Testing https://genesight.com

Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR Therapy) https://www.emdria.org/about-emdr-therapy

Stellate Ganglion Block (SGB) for PTSD – Information https://www.stellateinstitute.com/sgb-for-ptsd

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Lily & Charlie discuss - Is the last thing you quit the hardest? John, an engineer and outdoor enthusiast, recounts his decade-long struggle with kratom addiction that began as an alternative to pain pills, leading to escalating use (from 120 grams per day in the early 2010s to 7oh isolates in 2025), financial ruin, and the loss of a significant relationship. After multiple failed attempts to quit (including a relapse after 2 years kratom free), he ultimately finds success through a combination of medication, family support and cold plunges, and now shares his story to help others facing similar challenges.

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In the open, Charlie and Nolan discuss the fed's proposed 7OH ban. Jacob talks to interview guest Alyse about her journey from discovering kratom during bodybuilding training to struggling with addiction, multiple relapses, and ultimately seeking recovery through detox, medically assisted treatment, and support systems. While at time of this broadcast, she is kratom free for a couple months now, she is on a wait list to go to 30-day residential rehab to invest in long term abstinence from the green kava-kratom drinks, an addiction that caused her to lose a job and major strains on important relationships.

To get in touch with this week's guest: https://www.tiktok.com/@alyse.heun

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