Many lawyers find themselves questioning whether the traditional practice of law is the right long-term fit. In this episode, host Stephen Seckler speaks with Kim Fine and Neil Handwerker, co-founders of ex judicata, a platform designed to help lawyers explore and transition to non-legal careers.

Kim Fine brings a wealth of experience as a legal industry executive, including her time as Managing Director at ALM (American Lawyer Media). Neil Handwerker is a former practicing attorney and seasoned legal recruiter who has advised lawyers on career transitions for decades. Together, they launched ex judicata to address a growing need: helping lawyers find more fulfilling career paths outside of traditional legal roles.

In This Episode:

* The origin story of ex judicata and the founders' earlier work with Fulcrum Information Services

* Common reasons lawyers want to transition out of practice: burnout, billable hour pressure, and desire for team-oriented environments

* How ex judicata supports lawyers: diagnostic tools, job boards, interview archives, and online courses

* Popular course offerings like financial fluency and data analytics, tailored to JD career pivots

* Mindset shifts and soft skills lawyers need to develop when leaving the profession

* Guidance on timing your transition, especially when you’re financially dependent on your legal job

* The importance of self-reflection, side projects, and informational interviews in career exploration

* Support for 3Ls affected by the Federal hiring freeze

* What’s next for ex judicata—including a new initiative described as “revolutionary”

Additional Resources:

• · Episode 155: From Lawyering to Legal Tech with Ben Chiriboga
• · Episode 147-Your Legal Career: If It’s Broke, Fix It or Move On?
• · Episode 142-Winning in Your Own Court with Dena Lefkowitz
• · Episode 139-Conquering Perfectionism in the Practice of Law with Jordana Confino
• · Episode 124-Lauren Rikleen on Social Justice and Defending American Democracy
• · Episode 119-From Law Firm Associate to In-House Operations-With Shawn Hoyt
• · Episode 114-From Biglaw to In-house to Business Role and Back Again with Carl Berglind
• · Episode 113-From Litigation to Trial Consulting with Marc Diller
• · Episode 112-From Corporate Counsel to Management Consultant-Leveraging Your Legal Career with David Lesser