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In this episode, Scott Kuhlman and Chasity Owens kick off an exciting new series diving deep into NFPA 921—starting with one of the most critical chapters in the entire guide: Chapter 4, Basic Methodology. This episode blends expert-level fire investigation insight with the podcast’s signature humor, storytelling, and real-world case experience. Scott and Chasity introduce their brand-new segment, “Investigation Interrogation,” where they challenge each other—and the audience—with key questions every fire investigator should know before stepping into a courtroom or writing a report.

Listeners will learn how NFPA 921 now officially classifies fire investigation as a forensic science discipline, why Chapter 4 underpins everything from origin determination to negative corpus debates, and how the scientific method, inductive reasoning, deductive reasoning, bias reduction, and certainty levels shape reliable fire investigation results. They also unpack the three NFPA-recognized types of report reviews—administrative, technical, and peer review—and explain why a proper technical review is one of the strongest safeguards against confirmation bias and courtroom challenges.

The hosts share listener fan-mail wins, discuss real-world examples involving candles, combustibles, appliances, and the limits of testing hypotheses, and even touch on holiday fire safety—from Christmas trees to oven light bulbs. As always, the episode is packed with practical, courtroom-ready insights, investigator mindset training, and memorable teaching moments… all wrapped in humor, banter, and a blues-style “Water Your Tree” holiday PSA.

Whether you're a seasoned investigator, a trainee, or someone preparing for expert testimony, this episode delivers serious value and relatable, real-world fire investigation education—NFPA 921 made understandable, memorable, and actually fun.

🔥 Upcoming Training Opportunities Mentioned in This Episode

📅 December 15, 2025 – LLRMI Webinar
Title: Conducting Comprehensive Fire Investigations While Implementing NFPA 1321
Instructor: Steve Riggs
Cost: $150 (entire department can attend)

📅 December 16, 2025 – Cozen O’Connor Webinar
Title: AI and Insurance Law: Legal Challenges, Compliance, and Industry Transformation
Time: 11:30 AM – 12:30 PM EST
Cost: FREE

📅 January 20–23, 2026 – Oregon IAAI 40th Annual Career Development School
Location: Rogue Valley, Oregon
Topics Include:

• Advanced Fire & Arson Investigation
• Wildland Fire Investigation Overview
• Science Advisory Workgroup (SAW Group) workshop
• Crime lab & evidence collection
• Resiliency Training

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On this episode, Scott and Chasity go deep into a real commercial structure fire that went all the way to jury trial—and nearly got labeled as “negative corpus” by the defense.

They walk through the fire from first alarm to conviction: a midnight manual pull station, sprinklers flowing on stacked cardboard, a lone security guard, multiple small fires at knee height, and no obvious ignition source in the debris. Scott breaks down, step-by-step, how he eliminated every plausible cause, built a scientific timeline using fire dynamics and experimental burns, and defended his incendiary determination in court.

Along the way they unpack:

• The difference between negative corpus and proper process of elimination
• How NFPA 921 evolved from 2008 through 2024 on this issue
• Why documenting what you eliminated and how may be more important than your final cause
• Using research like the Ignition Handbook and Kirk’s Fire Investigation to support your findings
• Why separating origin & cause from interviews protects your objectivity
• How attorneys will attack your work—and how to stay calm and defensible on the stand

They also touch on AI and NFPA’s new usage policy, talk respiratory protection with CleanSpace PAPR and ITL, share upcoming training opportunities, and introduce this episode’s vocab word: “Forensic”—timed perfectly with NFPA 921 (2024) formally calling fire investigation a forensic science discipline for the first time.

Stick around to the end for a tease of their upcoming NFPA 921 chapter-by-chapter game-show series, and don’t forget to smash that five-star rating—it’s free-99 and helps the podcast reach more investigators.

Thank you for listening!

If you enjoyed the episode, give us 5 stars, hit the follow button, and subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and anywhere you are listening in from.

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LinkedIn: INFOCUS podcast
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In this episode, Chasity and Scott head to Florida to sit down with newly elected Florida Chapter President Joe Pietrafesa and newly elected Vice President Stephen Dollar. Recorded on Disney property during the state conference, this conversation dives into the real-world challenges fire investigators are facing today—from AI-altered photographs and manipulated metadata to the increasing importance of respiratory protection and long-term health monitoring. Joe opens up about how a routine life scan caught his kidney cancer early, underscoring why PPE and investigator health studies matter more than ever. Steven shares how AI training, modern learning tools, and better accessibility to education are shaping the chapter’s future as they aim to expand quarterly training opportunities and leverage new technologies for investigator development.

The group also talks about the Florida Chapter’s impressive scholarship opportunities, including multiple full-ride awards, and why new investigators should join their state associations to build community and support. Scott and Chasity spar a little on the difference between an interview and an interrogation, the nuances between public and private roles, and what that means for documentation. They also tease next episode’s key term: metadata—and how it can help or hurt an investigation. As always, the episode includes a WTF: We Trained Frequently segment, a sponsor spotlight on CleanSpace PAPRs with ITL, and some fun banter about Florida hospitality, Disney buses, and why investigators should take advantage of conferences that double as family-friendly destinations.

• Evidence Collection (New Class, Not ECT Practicum)
  Monday, December 8, 2025 – Irvine, CA
• Motor Vehicle Fire Investigation (3-Day, IAAI Endorsement Eligible)
  December 9–11, 2025 – Irvine, CA
• NFPA 1321: Conducting Comprehensive Fire Investigations
  Instructor: Steve Riggs, Legal & Liability Risk Management Institute (LLRMI)
  December 15, 2025 – Online
• ECT (Evidence Collection Technician) Practicum
  Sold Out — but can be taken at another location after completing the class above

Thank you for listening!

If you enjoyed the episode, give us 5 stars, hit the follow button, and subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and anywhere you are listening in from.

Follow us on social media!
Instagram: @infocus_podcast
LinkedIn: INFOCUS podcast
Facebook: INFOCUS podcast
TikTok: @infocus_podcast