Lisa Gezon, an anthropologist at the University of Alabama at Birmingham, joins Furthure to share her experience investigating what many may consider an unlikely cultural group – a psychedelic integration group in America’s Deep South. We discuss how the religious landscape of the region intersects with the kinds of experiences people face during their journeys. Additionally, we explore how psychedelic research has influenced the way people make sense of their psychedelic experiences in the wild. Finally, we touch on some of the potential side effects of psychedelics – from adopting new belief systems to becoming a psychedelic evangelical.

Relevant Papers: https://anthrosource.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdfdirect/10.1111/anoc.70010 https://akjournals.com/view/journals/2054/9/1/article-p8.xml

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Maria Bǎlǎeț, PhD is a cognitive neuroscientist who has explored how the use of psychedelics “in the wild” might impact both cognition and mental health.

She discusses her experiences with the Great British Intelligence Test and her research on the mental health resilience of psychedelic users during the COVID-19 pandemic, where she uncovered some unexpected results.

We also talk about the influence of public discourse on the effects of psychedelic experiences, particularly highlighting the nocebo effect. Additionally, we explore what effective science communication looks like, what the public can teach scientists about psychedelics, and the discrepancies between what is researched and what is actually relevant to people.

We also touch on a topic that many might find even more surprising than psychedelic-induced states—childbirth as a pleasant, mushroom-like altered state of consciousness. This idea is based on Maria’s recent case report, and she shares where she hopes this line of research will lead.

Interestingly, this conversation evolves into a broader discussion about how set and setting apply to all aspects of life, not just psychedelic use.

Maria’s social media account:

X: @emmsskyyy

Papers we discuss:

• https://www.researchgate.net/publication/371598104_Associations_between_the_use_of_psychedelics_and_other_recreational_drugs_with_mental_health_and_resilience_during_the_COVID-19_pandemic
• https://www.researchgate.net/publication/380509147_Considering_the_nocebo_effect_in_the_psychedelic_discourse
• https://akjournals.com/view/journals/2054/aop/article-10.1556-2054.2025.00362/article-10.1556-2054.2025.00362.xml
• https://osf.io/preprints/osf/g3xau_v1

Book I mention with aspects of a nocebo experience: The Varieties of Psychedelic Experience by Robert Masters and Jean Houston

Nocebo-like temporary effects are described on page 20 of the pdf - https://psychonautdocs.com/docs/thevarieties.pdf

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There are some unique occupational hazards to being a psychedelic facilitator. One you might not hear much about is getting stabbed by a client while extracting their astral parasites or demons.

This is what happened to Julio Rivera, who shares his story of a client attack during what he describes as a parasite extraction gone wrong.

We also learn more about Julio’s unique method of working with psychedelics, which includes demon extraction, ceremonial daggers, and ultra-high doses of psilocybin.

I also want to be clear about my intentions in sharing stories like this. I am not recommending that people seek out demon extraction or astral parasites; I am merely trying to capture some of the beliefs and frameworks that exist out there. I think it is important to catalog the belief structures and systems of use that emerge in naturalistic use contexts and retreat settings.

Finally, a few small warnings: this episode does get quite graphic. Trigger warnings can often be used in cringe-worthy ways, but if you don’t want to hear the details of someone being stabbed, please skip the first 20 minutes of this episode.

Lastly, I want to emphasize that the dosing parameters described in the later portion are extreme. These are roughly eight times the dosage used in a clinical trial.

Julio's website: https://www.shape-my.life/