On today's podcast, we explore the origin story of East Peak, created by Paulius Dragunas. East Peak recently had a huge moment in the world of trail running, when an icon used their ice bandana to great effect at Western States. In this conversation, we dig into all efforts that led up to that breakthrough - as well as the future of East Peak.

East Peak: https://www.runeastpeak.com/

Paulius Dragunas: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pdragunas/

SF Running Company: https://www.sfrunco.com/

Western States - Kilian (Blog): https://www.runeastpeak.com/blogs/news/western-states-2025-100-2-miles-99-degrees-and-1000-reasons-we-love-this-sport

The Story Behind The Ice Bandana: https://www.runeastpeak.com/blogs/news/the-story-behind-the-ice-bandana

Aaron Kubala: https://www.instagram.com/aaronkubala/

BPC - Brand, Product, Content:

On Running - Trail: https://www.on.com/en-us/shop/shoes/trail-running

Insta360 GO Ultra: https://store.insta360.com/consumer?utm_term=INRV8SK

Stillness Is The Key (Book): https://amzn.to/4pshepw

Tom Evans at UTMB: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DN-jw3NDHMm/

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Jonathan Levitt is back on Second Nature for his second appearance, this time to dive deep into the world of partnerships. We almost titled this episode "You're Probably Doing Affiliate Marketing The Wrong Way" because Jonathan dropped an incredible amount of knowledge about best practices for structuring, onboarding and executing partnerships. His first podcast appearance is the most referenced conversation in our library, and we think this episode is going to be right up there.

Show Notes:

Why Most Affiliate Programs Stall: https://substack.com/home/post/p-170877180

For The Long Run Podcast: https://forthelong.run/

Long Run Labs: https://longrunlabs.substack.com/

Sponsorable: https://sponsorable.com/

Emily Holland: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emilylholland/

Superfiliate: https://www.superfiliate.com/

Shox (Jonathan's link): https://shokz.com/?utm_source=FTLR

Skratch (Jonathan's link): http://skratchlabs.com/ftlrpod

Ketone IQ (Jonathan's link): http://ketone.com/FTLR

Tifosi (Jonathan's link): https://tifosiopticsinc.pxf.io/4GWNnM

Eternal: https://eternal.co/

Wild Poppy Consulting: https://www.wildpoppycreativeco.com/

BPC - Brand, Product, Content:

PACT: https://pactoutdoors.com/

Road To The Trials (podcast): https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/road-to-the-trials/id1468827005

Ozlo Sleep Buds: https://ozlosleep.com/products/sleepbuds

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media

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Greg WIlliams joins the podcast this week to share his experience and perspective after working more than twenty years in the outdoor industry. Now President of Backbone Media, he's been able to see the growth of the industry, as well as support the careers of many of the people in it - both current employees as well as those who got their start at Backbone. With the long view of the highs and lows of the industry, Greg has plenty to share in this discussion, both where we've been - and what the future may hold.

Show Notes:

Greg Williams: https://www.linkedin.com/in/greg-williams-3ab5958/

Backbone Media: https://www.backbone.media/

Philadelphia Rock Gym: https://philarockgym.com/

Climbing Magazine: https://www.climbing.com/

Enormocast (Climbing Podcast): https://enormocast.com/

YETI - Camino Bag: https://www.yeti.com/bags/tote-bags/camino-35.html

Penn Newhard: https://www.linkedin.com/in/penn-newhard-b363755/

Nate Simmons: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nate-simmons-21a5846/

Range (Book): https://amzn.to/4g7bddD

Andy Ralston Article on Backbone's Blog: https://www.backbone.media/insights/why-leading-brands-come-to-backbone-for-marketing

BPC - Brand, Product, Content:

Rucking - 5.11: https://www.511tactical.com/

Hyperwear Weighted Vest: https://amzn.to/4mPaD74

Hard MTB League: https://www.hardmtbleague.com/

The Knowledge Podcast - Ryan Petersen: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ryan-petersen-how-to-build-a-global-logistics-engine/id990149481?i=1000720673515

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

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Jeremy Dunn has forged his own path through the industry, working for storied brands like Rapha, Specialized and Smith Optics - but he's also created magazines and launched and built brands as an entrepreneur in the industry. In our conversation, we cover the lessons learned from both sides of his experience over the course of his career.

Show Notes:

Jeremy Dunn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremyddunn/

Rapha: https://www.rapha.cc/

Rouleur Magazine: https://www.rouleur.cc/

Slate Olson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/slate-olson-bb21171/

Chris Froome: https://www.instagram.com/chrisfroome/

Smith Optics: https://www.smithoptics.com/

The Athletic: https://www.theathleticcommunity.com/

Julie Krasniak: https://www.linkedin.com/in/juliekrasniak/

Tracksmith: https://www.tracksmith.com/

Bandit: https://banditrunning.com/

Pas Normal: https://pasnormalstudios.com/

BPC - Brand, Product, Content:

Vollebak: https://vollebak.com/

Pelotan: https://pelotan.cc/

Rapha Films "Gravity": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXjQZcc_D8E

Outdoor Brand Camp: https://www.outdoorbrandcamp.com

John John Florence x Rich Roll: https://www.richroll.com/podcast/john-john-florence-921/

How Long Gone Podcast: https://howlonggone.com/

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media

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It's been a hectic summer to say the least, but Dylan and Aaron have found time to catch up and run through the latest and greatest hits in the outdoor industry. In this episode, Dylan takes the reins with a full docket of topics that he's been wanting to cover on the pod.

Show Notes:

Eat My Words (Agency): https://eatmywords.com/

Hello My Name Is Awesome (Book): https://amzn.to/45vKp1O

YaBoyScottJurek: https://www.instagram.com/yaboyscottjurek/

Tracksmith: https://www.tracksmith.com/

Tracksmith Instagram Post: https://www.instagram.com/p/DNOHwmwtFaM/

Matt Trappe Article: https://substack.com/home/post/p-170404996

Bandit: https://banditrunning.com/

Kate - Leadville: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DNLyQWsxvsI/

Golden Trail World Series: https://goldentrailseries.com/

Pablo Torre Finds Out: https://www.youtube.com/@PabloTorreFindsOut

Meadowlark Media: https://www.meadowlark-media.com/

BPC - Brand, Product, Content:

Path Projects: https://pathprojects.com/

The Extramilest Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-extramilest-podcast/id1272025702

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media

Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media

Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

Greg Mills created Kitworks to solve the problem of gear organization, and in less than a year, he's established the product and brand within the outdoor community. In our conversation, we learn about the founding insights, the elements of Greg's background that contributed in a meaningful way to the brand's launch, and how people can utilize their current roles to subsidize their growth and development into opportunities like launching their own brands.

Show Notes:

Kitworks: https://mykitworks.com/

Greg Mills: https://www.linkedin.com/in/itsgregmills/

PNW Components: https://pnwcomponents.com/

Kitworks Gear Tote: https://mykitworks.com/products/gear-tote

Outdoor Voices: https://www.inc.com/ali-donaldson/5-years-after-being-pushed-out-of-outdoor-voices-ty-haney-is-doing-things-again/91219095

Nate Helming: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathan-helming/

Kitworks Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mykitworks/

BPC - Brand, Product, Content:

The Changing World Order - Ray Dalio (Book): https://amzn.to/46PiVqq

Invest Like The Best (Ramtin Naimi episode): https://joincolossus.com/episode/building-abstract/

Minted NY: https://mintednewyork.com/

Insta350 X5: https://store.insta360.com/consumer?utm_term=INRV8SK

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

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Adam Copeland launched Tantrums less than a year ago, and we've been having a great time watching him build the brand, brick by brick. In this conversation, we dig into the earliest days of the idea - all the way through the inflection points that have brought him to this point (and beyond).

Show Notes:

Tantrums: https://tantrums.run/

Run With Us - Pasadena Shop: https://www.clubrunwithus.com/

SAFE (Definition): https://www.angellist.com/learn/safe-note

Carta: https://carta.com/

Anna Louden: https://www.annalouden.com/

Monte's Tomato Sauce: https://www.instagram.com/p/C9SySioRvaw/

WTRC - Trippers Japan: https://trippers-wtrc.com/

BPC - Brand, Product, Content:

Nike at Western States (ACG): https://www.instagram.com/p/DLd7gU4x_1w/

Acquired Podcast: https://www.acquired.fm/

Win The Inside Game - Steve Magnus (Book): https://amzn.to/4lOOg1d

Invest LIke The Best - Jens Grede, Skims: https://joincolossus.com/episode/building-skims/

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media

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Dylan and Aaron catch up in the middle of the summer to reflect on where things are at - and how far we've come. Resetting our expectations - or "moving the goalposts" - based on how things have evolved over time. During this conversation, they put it into context for other media properties - and ask the real questions about where to go next.

Show Notes:

Freetrail: https://www.freetrail.com

Peak Life Experience: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku4dYpW6MG0

Billy Oppenheimer Newsletter: https://billyoppenheimer.com/

Quarter HP: https://www.youtube.com/@quarterhp

Joe Budden Network: https://www.patreon.com/cw/joebudden

Joe Budden NY Times Article: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/22/business/media/joe-budden-podcast-finances.html

Long Run Labs Podcast Collective: https://longrunlabs.substack.com/p/introducing-the-long-run-labs-podcast

Vox Media: https://podcasts.voxmedia.com/

Channels - Peter Kafka: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/channels-with-peter-kafka/id1080467174

Insta360: https://store.insta360.com/consumer?utm_term=INRV8SK

Substack Raises $100M: https://techcrunch.com/2025/07/17/substack-raises-100m-from-chernin-group-andreessen-horowitz-skims-ceo-and-more/

Red Bull Hardline: https://www.redbull.com/us-en/event-series/red-bull-hardline

BPC - Brand, Product, Content:

Kitworks: https://www.mykitworks.com

Kilian Jornet - 15 Years Stronger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faDan5z16qc

Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media

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