EPISODE SUMMARY

Most roofers chase leads. The best roofers build a brand.

In this episode, Dave and Crystal Williams explain why branding—not just ads—is what makes leads cheaper, customers more loyal, and businesses more valuable over time.

EPISODE DESCRIPTION

Roofers are obsessed with leads.

But leads get more expensive every year — unless you build something that makes people remember you, trust you, and look for you by name.

That’s called branding.

In this episode, Dave Sullivan sits down with Crystal Williams of Lemon Seed Marketing to explain what branding actually means for roofing companies — and how to build it while still generating leads today.

They break down:

1. Why most roofers look the same
2. How differentiation keeps you out of price wars
3. How mascots, billboards, trucks, and storytelling really work
4. Why “direct search” is the real scorecard for branding
5. And why marketing cannot fix broken operations

Crystal also shares the real-world case study of Eminem Roofing and Rufus the Armadillo, showing how consistent branding helped turn a small roofing company into a dominant regional player.

If you want cheaper leads, better customers, and a business that’s worth more than its trucks — this is where it starts.

YOU’LL LEARN

1. What branding actually means (it’s not your logo)
2. Why differentiation lets you charge more
3. How branding and lead gen should run together
4. Why mascots work — if you commit
5. How to measure branding using direct search
6. Why marketing exposes bad operations
7. When it’s time to rebrand
8. How consistent branding lowers your cost per lead

TIMESTAMPS

00:00 – Why branding matters

01:16 – What branding really is

03:45 – Storytelling and emotional connection

06:45 – Differentiation vs being a commodity

09:02 – Brand personality and origin stories

13:29 – Eminem Roofing case study

17:16 – Rufus the Armadillo and mascots

23:24 – When mascots work (and when they don’t)

29:47 – Ideal customer avatars and audits

35:21 – How to measure brand ROI

41:14 – Branding is a long-term commitment

43:09 – Why marketing can’t fix bad operations

48:15 – When to rebrand

53:45 – Final takeaways

54:19 – How to reach Crystal

RESOURCES

Lemon Seed Marketing

https://lemonseedmarketing.com

Email: hello@lemonseedmarketing.com

Email: crystal@lemonseedmarketing.com

LINKS

Work with...

This episode was recorded during the roofing boom—when being busy hid bad numbers. Today, work is slower and margins are tighter. Dave explains why job costing is now the difference between surviving and disappearing, and why “gut feel” leaves contractors broke even even when they’re busy.

This interview was recorded a few years ago when the roofing market was on fire. Phones were ringing, jobs were everywhere, and being busy hid a lot of sins.

Today it’s different.

Jobs are harder to get. Margins are thinner. And the contractors who don’t truly understand their numbers—what jobs actually make money, what crews are profitable, what their real labor cost is—those companies won’t survive this market.

I hear it every week:

“Dave, we’re working like crazy… but there’s never any money in the bank.”

That’s not bad luck. That’s no job costing.

Successful contractors job cost every job. Unsuccessful ones run on gut feel—and in this market, gut feel will put you out of business.

In this conversation, Dave Sullivan sits down with construction finance expert Leslie Shiner to break down the simple job costing system profitable roofers use to protect margins and make real decisions.

You’ll Learn

1. Why “gut feel” lies—and cash proves it
2. The real reason busy roofers still have no money
3. How to calculate true labor cost (labor burden)
4. Paid hours vs billable hours = labor utilization
5. Why labor overruns destroy profit faster than materials
6. How estimate vs actual fixes bad pricing
7. How to see which crews and job types make money
8. Two KPIs every roofer must track

00:00 – Why this matters now

02:20 – Gut feel vs real profit

06:20 – What job costing actually means

10:15 – True labor cost & labor burden

17:30 – Labor utilization explained

24:15 – Estimate vs actual the right way

30:25 – Fixing downtime & productivity

36:40 – Sales to production handoff

40:35 – KPIs that matter

44:15 – Improving your system

Shiner Group: https://www.shinergroup.com

Free Labor Burden Calculator (on Leslie’s site)

Work with Dave / Mentoring: https://theroofercoach.com/mentoring/

Free resources: https://theroofercoach.com/resources/

Connect with Dave!

Text Dave: (510) 612-1450

Free Strategy Call

Want to grow a more profitable roofing business?

Book a free strategy call with Dave here → davesullivan.as.me/free-strategy-call

Free Resource

Download your FREE 1-Page Business Plan for Roofing Contractors → theroofercoach.com/plan

Watch on...

As we head into 2026, many roofing contractors are rethinking how they build their business—focusing less on chaos and top-line growth, and more on profitability, structure, and long-term value.

In this episode, Dave Sullivan sits down with Tim Brown of Hook Agency, who’s doing something unexpected: launching his own roofing company, Owl Roofing. Dave walks Tim through the One-Page Business Plan framework to pressure-test the idea, clarify the strategy, and uncover the real challenges that come with starting a roofing business the right way.

This conversation goes far beyond marketing. Tim and Dave dig into storm work vs. retail, branding and positioning, financing-first selling, leadership depth, production risks, and what it really takes to build a roofing company that can grow without relying on the owner every day.

If you’re planning your 2026 strategy—or thinking about starting, scaling, or eventually stepping back from your business—this episode will sharpen your thinking fast.

What you’ll hear in this episode:

1. Why Tim Brown is launching Owl Roofing and what he hopes to build
2. Using the One-Page Business Plan to create clarity and direction
3. Storm work vs. retail roofing and how to think about the mix
4. Why being “five-mile-famous” beats spreading marketing thin
5. The two biggest homeowner complaints: communication and clean-up
6. Financing-first selling: why homeowners buy payments, not prices
7. Dave’s three-legged stool framework: Sell Work, Do Work, Keep Score
8. The real risks in roofing: hiring, production handoffs, insurance tightening, and cash flow
9. Building a business that creates options—sell it, step back, or keep it cash flowing

Resources mentioned:

1. Free One-Page Business Plan for Roofing Contractors → https://theroofercoach.com/resources
2. Roofing Success Audit → https://theroofercoach.com/resources
3. Hook Agency → https://hookagency.com

Trusted & Vetted Sponsors:

1. Ruby Receptionists – US-based professionals who answer your phones live, create a great first impression, and tee up the sale so you can focus on running your business.
2. Get $150 off your first month → https://theroofercoach.com/ruby
3. ProLine – The roofing CRM that sells more jobs and helps you make it home for dinner. Automate follow-up, quoting, and...