Traditional ways of working are failing in today's complex world, with global engagement levels dropping and productivity losses reaching $438 billion.

Adopting business agility – not just its tools and processes, but its mindset shifts – helps organisations move beyond outdated approaches and create more effective ways of working.

Joining Dan and Pia is Natal Dank, an HR author, speaker, and consultant specialising in helping businesses become great workplaces. Her work particularly focuses on HR and people teams, bringing business agility principles to organisations.

Three reasons to listen

1. To understand how business agility can help solve multifaceted problems in uncertain environments
2. To build effective teams that break down silos and harness diverse skills
3. To focus on solving real business challenges rather than getting caught up in tools and terminology

Episode highlights

• [00:09:16] The Agile mindset
• [00:13:46] Misconceptions around Agile
• [00:18:19] Agile people teams
• [00:23:05] Teams in name only
• [00:24:17] The challenges in adopting Agile
• [00:27:11] The evidence for Agile
• [00:31:58] Common objections to Agile
• [00:40:05] Leaders need to embrace complexity
• [00:41:26] What does "done" look like?
• [00:44:20] Protecting time for deep work
• [00:46:10] Where to start
• [00:48:58] Natal's media recommendation
• [00:50:35] Takeaways from Dan and Pia

Links

• Connect with Natal via LinkedIn
• On the Level – Margaret Heffernan’s Substack newsletter
• Track and improve your team performance with Squadify
• Leave us a voice note

Most change initiatives fail because they focus solely on technical aspects like planning, roles, and measures, while neglecting the human element – particularly the need for people to understand why changes are happening and to feel heard throughout the process.

Jeffrey Wetherhold is a behavioral scientist who’s built his career around organisational change management. He transitioned from behavioural science to community health, and now runs his own change management consultancy.

This conversation will help you

• Better understand why traditional technical change management approaches often fail
• Recognise and address the most fundamental barrier to organisational change
• Move beyond labels like "resistant" or "averse" and focus on different perspectives

Episode highlights

• [00:07:46] Understanding change management
• [00:11:21] When change feels weaponised
• [00:13:04] Overcoming resistance to change
• [00:15:05] Mmotivational interviewing.
• [00:17:47] Where to begin having the change conversation
• [00:23:12] Caught in the middle
• [00:27:01] The hierarchy of needs
• [00:30:30] What you can do today
• [00:32:44] Jeff's media recommendations
• [00:34:23] Takeaways from Dan and Pia

Links

• Connect with Jeff via LinkedIn
• How Minds Change: The New Science of Belief, Opinion and Persuasion, by David McRaney
• Build Something Better – The Raw Signal Group newsletter
• Track and improve your team performance with Squadify
• Leave us a voice note

Spiritual intelligence in leadership goes far beyond simply posting mission statements on walls - it's about cultivating fundamental qualities like purpose, gratitude, humility and presence that create genuinely harmonious and productive workplaces.

Research shows that leaders who embrace these qualities build teams with higher morale, greater commitment, and even better financial results.

Yosi Amram is an expert in spiritual intelligent leadership and a former Silicon Valley entrepreneur, leaving that role to become a clinical psychologist. His research on spiritual intelligence has been cited over a thousand times, proving that spiritual intelligence gets results.

Three reasons to listen

• Discover the 22 key qualities that contribute to better leadership and organisational outcomes
• Understand practical ways to reduce workplace toxicity and politics
• Explore how qualities like gratitude and humility can transform team dynamics and create more harmonious work environments

Episode highlights

• [00:11:25] Spiritual intelligence
• [00:21:13] Separation of church and state
• [00:24:34] Separating from the ego
• [00:29:48] Internal family systems
• [00:31:32] Overidentifying with the job
• [00:33:51] Where to start
• [00:37:54] Yosi's media recommendation
• [00:39:06] Takeaways from Pia and Dan

Links

• Spiritually Intelligent Leadership – Yosi‘s book
• No Bad Parts, by Richard Schwartz
• Take the Spiritual Intelligence assessment
• Track and improve your team performance with Squadify
• Atomic Habits, by James Clear
• Leave us a voice note

Effective leadership remains fundamentally the same regardless of location. It's the context that changes, not the core principles. The key is to think “leadership first, location second".

While the physical setting may vary, the essential aspects of human behaviour, interaction, and needs remain constant, making it crucial for leaders to maintain their foundational leadership skills while adapting to new working environments.

Kevin Eikenberry is an author, business owner, speaker, and podcaster. He co-wrote The Long Distance Leader and runs the Remote Leadership Institute. He’s been leading remote teams for about 15 years and specialises in remote and hybrid leadership training.

Three reasons to listen

• Learn principles that remain relevant even as workplace dynamics continue evolving
• Understand why many leaders push for return-to-office, through a compassionate lens
• Discover how the pandemic transformed leadership practices, particularly in developing greater empathy and attention to individual team member circumstances

Episode highlights

• [00:07:59] Writing The Long Distance Leader
• [00:13:21] Why many leaders prefer to bring people back to the office
• [00:18:05] Recapturing the magic
• [00:21:57] The shifting social views of work in history
• [00:24:35] Mindset and skillset for remote leadership
• [00:27:34] The problem with "busy"
• [00:30:49] Intention without action
• [00:32:04] Flexible Leadership
• [00:34:37] Kevin's media recommendations
• [00:35:50] Takeaways from Pia and Dan

Links

• The Long-Distance Leader: Rules for Remarkable Remote and Hybrid Leadership, by Kevin Eikenberry and Wayne Turmel
• Building Confidence in Yourself & Others – Kevin’s free masterclass for podcast listeners
• The Remarkable Leadership Podcast
• Connect with Kevin via LinkedIn
• Books by Og Mandino
• Track and improve your team performance with Squadify
• Leave us a voice note

Most managers are unprepared for their roles, with 82% having no management training at all. Effective team leadership needs structured, accessible tools to help managers build psychological safety, connection, and engagement with their teams.

Jennifer Dulski is the founder and CEO of Rising Team, a software-guided interactive learning platform for managers to develop their teams. Rising Team helps leaders build insights and deeper connections with their teams through structured development kits and short sessions that can be conducted virtually or in-person.

Three reasons to listen

• Learn how software is helping managers develop their teams more effectively
• Understand how to measure and improve psychological safety, connection, engagement, and retention in teams
• Discover practical tools for team development that work for both office teams and frontline workers

Episode highlights

• [00:10:01] Rising Team
• [00:21:26] The four Cs of developing leaders
• [00:23:20] The increase in overwhelming challenges faced by managers
• [00:26:50] "Can every manager really do it?
• [00:29:50] Making space for different cognitive styles and skillsets
• [00:32:30] Create a personal user manual
• [00:34:45] Advice for senior execs
• [00:37:21] Jennifer's media recommendation
• [00:39:00] Takeaways from Pia and Dan

Links

• Connect with Jennifer via LinkedIn
• 6 Lessons All Leaders Can Learn From Maverick
• Rising Team
• A Path Appears: Transforming Lives, Creating Opportunity, by Nicholas Kristof & Sheryl WuDunn
• Lessons in Chemistry – Jennifer’s TV recommendation
• Track and improve your team performance with Squadify
• Leave us a voice note

Engagement surveys and team data are tools for understanding and supporting teams, not targets to achieve or sticks to beat people with.

Simply gathering data for the sake of a good score is counterproductive and potentially disengaging. This information should be used to genuinely understand team dynamics, spot trends, and identify areas where support is needed to build authentic engagement and commitment to the organisation.

Jenni McNeil is the head of Information Security at Contact Energy in New Zealand. She leads a geographically diverse team focused on protecting the cyber resilience of the organisation. Jenni started in sales and became a manager at 25, switching to technology as an IT support technician before pivoting to cybersecurity.

Her current team includes a mix of experience levels, from recent graduates to industry veterans with 25 years of experience, spread across different locations.

Three reasons to listen

• Learn how to effectively monitor team dynamics in a remote work environment through digital listening and virtual water-cooler spaces
• Understand the true value of engagement surveys as tools for understanding workforce trends and identifying areas for support, not just scoring metrics
• Discover strategies for managing geographically dispersed teams while maintaining connection without micromanaging

Episode highlights

• [00:08:53] Leading a geographically-spread team
• [00:11:21] Pros and cons of engagement surveys
• [00:18:24] Ethics of AI in employee engagement
• [00:24:17] What to read when gathering data
• [00:26:30] Holding the data lightly
• [00:29:17] Jenni's media recommendations
• [00:30:32] Takeaways from Pia and Dan

Links

• Connect with Jenni via LinkedIn
• A Court of Thorns and Roses, by Sarah J Maas
• In Pursuit of the Secure Board (Spotify-only show)
• Track and improve your team performance with Squadify
• Leave us a voice note

Organisational effectiveness isn't just about making team members more productive, but properly structuring teams and understanding how they work together.

Small teams with high trust can make decisions quickly and maintain better context of what they're building, while being mindful of the cognitive load placed on members.

Matthew Skelton is the author of Team Topologies. He developed patterns for team organisation and devops that were adopted by companies like Netflix and Accenture. His work focuses on how to structure teams effectively in organisations, particularly looking at concepts like team cognitive load and team interaction modes.

Three reasons to listen

• Learn how small teams can achieve faster results and deliver value more effectively to users
• Understand the principles behind Amazon's "two pizza team" approach, including how trust enables quick decision-making in small groups
• Discover how organisations often lack self-awareness and how this becomes a major obstacle to their success

Episode highlights

• [00:11:47] The road to Team Topologies
• [00:17:18] Why collaboration is not the only answer
• [00:22:05] Creating flow for small teams
• [00:23:34] Making work humane
• [00:28:10] The Uswith example
• [00:30:45] Alternative schools of thought
• [00:34:56] Impact on team leaders
• [00:37:31] Conway's law
• [00:40:48] Decoupling of teams and architecture
• [00:46:08] Matthew's media recommendations
• [00:48:59] Takeaways from Pia and Dan

Links

• Team Topologies: Organizing Business and Technology Teams for Fast Flow –Matthew’s book
• The jazz ensemble: the ultimate team? – We Not Me
• Team Topologies’ Uswitch case study
• Conway's law
• Empowered Agile Transformation: Beyond the Framework, by Alexandra Stokes
• Architecture Modernization, by Nick Tune
• Frozen II (2019)
• Leave us a voice note

AI technology has the potential to enhance team dynamics and human relationships… if used thoughtfully. In this episode, Dan and Pia explore how AI can help with team communication and collaboration, while raising questions about finding the right balance between AI assistance and maintaining genuine human connection.

For this episode, Dan and Pia are joined by ChatGPT, using OpenAI's advanced voice technology to participate in the conversation and provide answers to questions. ChatGPT is assisted by Squadify’s Chief Technology Officer Ian Smith.

Three reasons to listen

• Explore the challenges of hybrid teams and practical strategies for maintaining effective communication when team members work from different locations
• Discover approaches for transforming groups from "Teams in name only" into truly collaborative teams that achieve shared goals
• See where ChatGPT excels and falls down when answering questions (and how well it can maintain accents)

Episode highlights

• [00:10:41] The challenges faced by hybrid teams
• [00:12:42] Teams in name only
• [00:15:11] Dealing with difficult team members
• [00:19:38] The ideal size of a team
• [00:21:07] Challenges faced by cross-functional teams
• [00:22:50] Qualities of high-performing leaders
• [00:24:18] ChatGPT's book recommendation
• [00:25:55] Takeaways from Pia and Dan

Links

• The Wisdom of Teams: Creating the High-Performance Organization, by Jon Katzenbach and Douglas Smith
• Research by Richard Hackman
• The Five Dysfunctions of a Team, by Patrick Lencioni
• Team of Teams: New Rules of Engagement for a Complex World, by Stanley McChrystal
• Track and improve your team performance with Squadify
• Leave us a voice note