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Open Fuel: Code DISTANCE for 20% off

Two hundred miles gives you more time to fix your problems, and a lot more time to create them. Most of those problems start with what you’re eating and drinking, or what you aren’t.

This week Kevin and Peter sit down with Claire Shorenstein, MS, RD, CSSD, a board-certified sports dietitian, longtime trail runner, and founder of Eat for Endurance. They cover how fueling changes once you’re past day one, why the science on 200s is mostly extrapolation from shorter races, and what that 2023 Cocodona 250 energy-deficit study found. Claire also grades Kevin’s non-negotiable pre-sleep rule for his athletes, walks through vomiting and GI troubleshooting, and explains why “not hungry” doesn’t mean “don’t need food.” Then Kevin offers up a totally hypothetical 37-year-old who eats like a toddler with a credit card.

Plus: Javelina Jundred commentary recap, Peter’s Halloween costume, a TrainingPeaks tip on TSS, a round of Let’s Get Deep, and Kevin’s new data-driven training plans for 2027.

Show notes

Guest: Claire Shorenstein, MS, RD, CSSD

• Eat for Endurance (private practice): eatforendurance.com
• The Eat for Endurance Podcast, with seven-plus years of episodes, including one from January 2026 on what working with a sports dietitian is like
• Fuel for Life Crew: Claire’s membership community for endurance athletes ($39/month or less), with resources and a Slack group for questions
• Free 30-minute discovery calls are available through her new-client inquiry form

In this episode

• Javelina Jundred recap: wild desert weather, a nearly 50% DNF rate, and Heather Jackson’s late pass in the dark
• Kevin on commentating remotely for Mountain Outpost
• Melanie launches distancetoemptypod.com
• Interview with Claire Shorenstein:
• TrainingPeaks tip of the week: why an accurate TSS matters
• Outro: Peter’s comeback, Let’s Get Deep, and Kevin’s new training plans

Sponsors
Use code DISTANCE at checkout, then send us proof of your order for free Distance to Empty swag. Proof can go to distancetoemptypod@gmail.com, to @distancetoemptypod on Instagram, or through the contact form at distancetoemptypod.com. Include your mailing address.

• Janji: janji.com. Choose “Podcast,” then “Distance to Empty” in the post-purchase survey and screenshot it.
• Mount to Coast: mounttocoast.com, code DISTANCE
• Open Fuel: openfuel.com, code DISTANCE
• TrainingPeaks: Sign up for a free account at trainingpeaks.com (includes 14 days of Premium) and send us proof for a set of Distance to Empty bib clips.

• 
  

Train with us
One-on-one coaching, group coaching through our Patreon, and new static training plans built from real finishers’ FIT files. Plans include the Leadville big buckle (sub-25), competitive Cocodona (70–85 hours), Arizona Monster, and more at distancetoemptypod.com. Our Patreon is always the first link in the show notes.

Learn about our Patreon Offers!: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors!

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The turn has tabled! This time Peter interviews Kevin about his Badwater 135. After years of saying he'd never run it, Kevin crewed Francis in 2024 and Peter in 2025, then decided he had to see what it felt like to cross Death Valley on foot. He started the 9 PM wave feeling the best he'd ever felt in a race. He ran sub-10 miles in 118°F heat and hit mile 50 by sunrise. Around mile 20, though, a mild pain in his lower left shin started and steadily got worse. He held on through Towne Pass, Father Crowley, and the long flat stretch to Lone Pine, reached mile 100 in under 21 hours, and ground up the Whitney Portal Road to finish in just under 31 hours. A few hours later, the ER in Lone Pine diagnosed cellulitis.

We also cover:

• Kevin's 18-hour, 21-minute 100-mile PR and Western States qualifier at Canal Corridor 100, and Peter's truly untrained 73 miles
• Heat acclimation from altitude training in Leadville plus sauna sessions
• Kevin's fueling plan: about 70g of carbs per hour with Open Fuel and gels
• The Badwater hotel puzzle that comes before the race itself
• Peter's birthday unicycle
• Starlink in Death Valley, walkie-talkie mischief, and Chris's homemade battery-powered misting pack
• A surprise dinosaur in Lone Pine
• The ER trip, a "syphilis" scare, and a recovery drive to Bishop (with a stop at Schat's)

Welcome, Open Fuel! We're excited to announce Open Fuel as our newest sponsor. Use code DISTANCE for 20% off.

Our other partners:

• Mount to Coast: Use code DISTANCE. Kevin and the crew ran in the Badwater-edition C135s.
• Janji: In the post-purchase survey, select "Podcast," then "Distance to Empty."
• TrainingPeaks: Create a free account and send us your welcome email, and we'll mail you some Distance to Empty bib boards.

Swag: Send a screenshot of your receipt or survey to @distancetoemptypod on Instagram or distancetoemptypod@gmail.com for free swag. Options include new "Normalize Crying in Ultras" hats, "Have a Nice Run" shirts, and bib boards. For a limited time, any Open Fuel, Mount to Coast, or Janji order over $50 also gets you one of Kevin's TrainingPeaks training plans of your choice, free.

Learn about our Patreon Offers!: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors!

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you!

Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Moab 240 2026 Course Preview: Every Section, Every Change, with Head Trail Marker Jameson Collins

The Moab 240 starts this week, and we've got a full section-by-section breakdown of the 2026 course. Kevin is joined by Jameson Collins, head trail marker for Destination Trail. Jameson is a two-time Moab finisher and has spent this week out marking the course, so he has current, on-the-ground details on what runners will face.

Kevin and Jameson cover every leg from the arch in downtown Moab, through the desert of Lockhart Basin, up into the Abajos and the La Sals, and back to town. They rate each section from 1 to 5, ski-slope style, so runners know when they're on a green run and when they're on a double black. They also go through what's new this year:

• The start moves back to 6 AM, and they explain the reasoning behind it.
• There's a new 3-liter minimum water carry out of Base Camp, with a 1-liter maximum top-off at the Lockhart water stop. They explain why it exists and how much water you should actually carry.
• Drop bags are now available at Base Camp and the Oasis.
• Bridger Jack is a new sleep station.
• The fire reroute has been cleared. Runners will still pass through burn areas on Shea and the climb from Shea to Monticello Lake.
• Green and yellow crew groups apply at Shea Mountain and Monticello Lake, along with the pacer drop-off rules.
• The final section has a construction detour. Runners now come down through Sand Flats and the Falcon Flow trail and finish by running through downtown Moab.

Along the way you'll hear about the Oasis "mirage," the double climb on Shea, why Road 46 might be the most important aid station on the course, and Jameson's advice for crews: get out and enjoy Moab while you wait.

In the outro, Peter Noyes is back with his top tip for the race (spoiler: sleep at Road 46), a message for runners listening mid-race, a quick round of Let's Get Deep, and some questionable prep for his own 100-miler this weekend.

Chapters (main episode)
00:00 Intro with Jameson Collins
02:46 What's new for 2026
07:03 Rating system and Start → Hidden Valley
12:21 Hidden Valley → Amasa Back
19:53 Amasa Back → Base Camp (Jackson's Ladder)
25:10 Base Camp → Oasis via Lockhart (water carry rules)
33:30 Oasis → Indian Creek
35:40 Indian Creek → The Island
40:56 The Island → Bridger Jack
46:23 Bridger Jack → Shea Mountain
51:40 Green and yellow crew groups explained
55:31 Shea Mountain → Monticello Lake
58:29 Monticello Lake → Dry Valley
1:01:27 Dry Valley → Needles → Road 46
1:05:23 Road 46 → Pole Canyon
1:09:32 Pole Canyon → Geyser Pass
1:14:48 Geyser Pass → Porcupine Rim
1:19:02 Porcupine Rim → Finish (new 2026 route)
1:24:10 Closing advice
Outro: Peter's tips, a message for runners on course, and Let's Get Deep

Support the show and get free swag
Place an order with Mount to Coast using code DISTANCE for 10% off, or order from Janji and select "Podcast → Distance to Empty" at checkout. Then send your receipt screenshot, size, and address to @distancetoemptypod on Instagram or distancetoemptypod@gmail.com. If you order or leave a review while you're out on the Moab course, we'll send you something extra special.

Join our Patreon for the Discord community and bonus content. It's the first link in the show notes.

Good luck out there, Moab runners. Stay in the fight.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Play The Mammoth 200⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Video Game!

Learn about our Patreon Offers!: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors!

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you!

Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Meet the Mammoths — Bailey Gripshover: The ICU, the PCT, and the Potato Lifestyle

Today's guest spends her working life in a cardiothoracic ICU in Seattle, with patients having the worst days of their lives. When she's not there, she's choosing to suffer on trails — a contrast she says keeps everything in perspective when a race doesn't go the way she hoped.

Bailey Gripshover finished top 10 in her 200-mile debut at Cocodona 250 this past May, and held the lead in the inaugural MBA at Mingus for a while after sinking a shot she fully expected to miss. This October she's back for a second crack at the distance at Mammoth.

We talk about what it's like running these races with a medical background: knowing when to pull the plug on an Arizona Trail FKT attempt because of a swollen Achilles, and also completely botching her own electrolytes at Javelina despite managing electrolyte imbalances at work every single day. She also makes a strong case for being the best-prepared person in the field on sleep — 12-to-14-hour ICU shifts, flip-flopping between days and nights, operating at a high level while exhausted because there isn't another option.

Plus: how hiking the PCT in 2019 introduced her to the idea that people race these distances at all, why the Eastern Sierra is family terrain (her grandpa did the JMT, and she summited Whitney with her mom and sister for her mom's 60th), and her Mammoth 200 video game result — currently second on our leaderboard at 68 hours, after a first attempt where she DNF'd because her feet disintegrated on the pumice. She is now, genuinely, reconsidering gaiters.

In this episode:

• Perspective from the ICU, and why it's "just running"
• When medical knowledge helps, and when it doesn't
• Shift work as accidental sleep-deprivation training
• Four hours of sleep and almost no hallucinations at Cocodona
• A virtual DNF by foot destruction, and a potential gaiter conversion
• Making a basket at Mingus and riding the high
• Her prediction: this will have the best aid station food in ultrarunning
• Peter's preferred potato orientation

Mammoth 200 kicks off Friday, October 2nd in Mammoth Lakes, California. Catch live coverage on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel, and follow @Mammoth200 for updates and tracking throughout the race.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Play The Mammoth 200⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Video Game!

Learn about our Patreon Offers!: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors!

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you!

Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Meet the Mammoths — Amber Weibel: Second Place, and Back for More

Amber ran her first official 200-mile race last year at Mammoth and finished in 55 hours and 40 minutes, second place female. She holds fastest known times on both the Tahoe Rim Trail and the John Muir Trail. And with one week to go until the 2026 race, she's back.

Amber Weibel joins us to talk about picking Mammoth because it let her kids finish out their school week before driving down to crew — a genuinely practical reason that says a lot about where she is in her life right now. She describes what a race feels like after years of unsupported FKTs, where nobody is waiting at the next aid station and the energy bump of seeing family simply doesn't exist. Mammoth, she says, was strangely hard, and her husband had never seen her in a low quite like the one she hit on night two.

We get into the question that's been nagging at us since we researched this episode: she's run the Tahoe Rim Trail both supported and unsupported, and the crewed version was only 22 minutes faster. Her answer is about what a level playing field actually looks like, and why she'd rather be in the wilderness on her own.

She also explains the lie she told herself all the way around the Mammoth course last year, her path from cyclist to Ultraman world champion to trail running, why she'll happily spend four minutes changing shoes to avoid blisters, and her Mammoth 200 video game result — which she'll admit came after a first attempt she describes as embarrassingly slow.

In this episode:

• Picking a race that fits around an 8- and 9-year-old's school week
• Unsupported FKTs versus a supported 200, and what changes
• Twenty-two minutes: what a crew is actually for
• The lie she kept telling herself at Mammoth last year
• Four pairs of shoes, zero blisters
• A 105-hour first attempt at the video game, and a much better second
• Her non-placement goal: showing her kids what working through hard things looks like
• A weather prediction from someone who got caught in lightning on the second summit

Mammoth 200 kicks off Friday, October 2nd in Mammoth Lakes, California. Catch live coverage on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel, and follow @Mammoth200 for updates and tracking throughout the race.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Play The Mammoth 200⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Video Game!

Learn about our Patreon Offers!: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors!

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you!

Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Meet the Mammoths — Gabe Joyes: 200-Mile Curious, Properly Intimidated

Today's guest has raced almost everything this sport has to offer. Gabe Joyes has been top 10 at Hardrock, runner-up at HURT 100 this past January, and finished the Dragon's Back Race, the 240-mile stage race across Wales. He's a coach at Uphill Athlete and a race director himself. What he's never done is a continuous, single-push 200 — until this October.

Gabe joins us to explain why he's been "200-mile curious" for years but properly intimidated, and why the Mammoth course was the one that finally got him to sign up. He also has a compelling theory about what these races actually are: not eating competitions, but problem-solving competitions, where the plan holds for some unknown number of hours and everything after that is jazz.

We also get into something few runners have had to reckon with. A few years ago Gabe fell on his trekking pole while running downhill fast, nearly bled to death on the trail, and was helicoptered to a hospital. He talks openly about how long it took to move past that, why he still uses poles, and the one rule he's never broken since: he does not run downhill with them out. Ever.

Plus: sleep strategy after a 47-hour unsupported Wind River High Route push that went sideways past hour 40, a refreshingly honest answer about having six shoes still in contention a month out, and the single best homework excuse of the series — Gabe outsourced his Mammoth 200 video game playthrough to his 11- and 14-year-old kids, who ran five or six attempts, posted times between 88 and 96 hours, and logged exactly one DNF.

In this episode:

• Why Mammoth was the course worth breaking the 200 seal for
• Plans, chaos, and treating a race as a problem-solving competition
• The trekking pole accident, and how he uses poles now
• Caffeine, hallucinations, and what happens past hour 40
• Six shoes, one month out, zero decisions made
• Homework delegated to the kids (a 100% honest disclosure)
• His non-placement goal: making sure his crew has a good time
• A prediction about the stories that'll come out of race weekend

Mammoth 200 kicks off Friday, October 2nd in Mammoth Lakes, California. Catch live coverage on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel, and follow @Mammoth200 for updates and tracking throughout the race.