Today’s disagreement is about college and its worth-it-ness. Does the traditional college model still make sense in today’s economy? Should we embrace shorter-term skills-based alternatives? And how can institutions balance access, affordability, and workforce readiness in a rapidly changing world?

Ryan Craig is a Managing Director at Achieve Partners and co-founder of Apprenticeships for America. Ryan is also the author of Apprentice Nation: How the "Earn and Learn" Alternative to Higher Education Will Create a Stronger and Fairer America.

Dr. Bridget Burns is founding CEO of the University Innovation Alliance, a ‘multi-campus laboratory’ for student success in higher education. Previously, Dr. Burns served as an American Council on Education Fellow at Arizona State University and a Senior Policy Advisor and Chief of Staff for the Oregon University System.

Episode Notes

02:00 - Bridget's Perspective
04:15 - Ryan's Counterpoint
06:12 - Defining 'Worth It': Beyond Economic ROI
09:59 - The Role of Higher Education in Society
15:19 - The Need for Accountability and Reform
17:14 - The Apprenticeship Dilemma
21:04 - College or Chipotle
21:32 - The European Model vs. The American System
22:59 - The Need for Adaptability and Social Skills
25:05 - The Cost and Value of College Education
26:17 - The Future of College and Employment
33:28 - Steel Man

This episode was recorded live in San Diego at the annual ASU+GSV Summit. You can watch the live stream of it on YouTube.

Questions or comments about this episode? Email us at podcast@thedisagreement.com or find us on X and Instagram @thedisagreementhq. Subscribe to our newsletter: https://thedisagreement.substack.com/

Earlier this year, President Trump signed an executive order aimed at ending birthright citizenship. He has placed this issue at the forefront of his immigration agenda and it is now being taken up by the Supreme Court. To have this conversation, we’ve brought together a constitutional law scholar and a political commentator.

Cristina Rodríguez is the Leighton Homer Surbeck Professor of Law at Yale Law School. In 2021, she was appointed by President Biden to co-chair the Commission on the Supreme Court of the United States. Her recent book is called The President and Immigration Law. She’s also the co-host of the new podcast: Unsettled: Immigration in Turbulent Times.

Rod D. Martin writes The Rod Martin Report on Substack. He is also the Founder and CEO of Martin Capital. As a tech entrepreneur and venture capitalist, Rod was previously an advisor to Peter Thiel. Rod also served as policy director to Mike Huckabee, the former Governor of Arkansas.

We talk a lot about the 14th Amendment in this episode. It was ratified in 1868 to give formerly enslaved people the right to vote. Here’s what it says: “all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States.” Keep that phrase in mind. “Subject to the jurisdiction thereof.” It’ll come up a lot.

Our guests also discuss the Supreme Court cases Elk v Wilkins, Slaughterhouse, and Wong Kim Ark. All you need to know for this episode is: those rulings influenced the interpretation of the 14th Amendment. Last note, this episode is moderated by co-host and co-founder, Catherine Cushenberry.

Questions or comments about this episode? Email us at podcast@thedisagreement.com or find us on X and Instagram @thedisagreementhq. Subscribe to our newsletter: https://thedisagreement.substack.com/

Today’s disagreement is about college campus detentions, due process, and free speech.

We focus on the two most high-profile cases: Mahmoud Khalil: a green card holder, legal resident, and graduate student at Columbia University who had a leadership role within CUAD, which stands for Columbia University Apartheid Divest; and Rümeysa Öztürk: a graduate student at Tufts University who is a student visa holder. She co-authored an op-ed in the campus newspaper supporting a resolution to divest from Israel. We also briefly touch on the Kilmar Abrego Garcia case and President Bukele’s recent visit to the oval office.

Is there a legal basis for these deportations and what are the implications for free speech and due process? What does it mean to be an American? What kind of country do we want to live in? Are these deportations “good for the Jews”?

Graeme Wood is a staff writer for The Atlantic and a lecturer in political science at Yale University, where he has taught since 2014. Graeme has been a Press Fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, a visiting professor at the University of Pennsylvania, and a fellow at the United States Naval Academy.

Ilya Shapiro is a senior fellow and director of constitutional studies at the Manhattan Institute. He writes a Substack called Shapiro's Gavel and his new book is called Lawless: The Miseducation of America’s Elites.

One note: We had a few issues with audio quality - it’s not up to our normal standards - but it should not significantly impact your listening experience. Alright, take a deep breath, open your mind as far as it’s willing to go, and prepare for a different kind of conversation on campus deportations.

Questions or comments about this episode? Email us at podcast@thedisagreement.com or find us on X and Instagram @thedisagreementhq. Subscribe to our newsletter: https://thedisagreement.substack.com/

Questions or comments about this episode? Email us at podcast@thedisagreement.com or find us on X and Instagram @thedisagreementhq. Subscribe to our newsletter: https://thedisagreement.substack.com/