Épisodes

  • 18: Expectations

    18: Expectations
    Sep 2 2025
    “If I was a good person, I would—”“If you cared about me, you would—”“As adults, we should—”“In the workplace, we need to—”Um, says who?Like it or not, enumerable expectations are built into the fabric of society. What we expect of ourselves and others plays a profound role in shaping our relationship to the world and those around us. But who came up with these social rules, anyway? And why do we follow them? Are they fair? Do the expectations we’ve come to believe in improve our lives or do they create unnecessary anxiety, resentment or disappointment? In this week’s episode, we dig into why we have these sets of rules and guidelines, which ones to keep and which ones we might want joyfully yeet into the sun.If we missed some big ones, let us know! We’d love to do a follow-up episode. (Complaining about expectations is one of Rowan’s favourite activities on account of getting old.)Want more of Lara and Rowan?Rowan is available for speaking engagements, and Lara has coaching spots available.TranscriptLara: I think there's the part where. We think about what expectations have been put on us and how we want to deal with it and what we can and can't change in the moment.But the other part is what expectations have you put on other people and how is that impacting their lives? And how is it impacting your life? Welcome to unboxing it. I'm Lara.[00:00:43] Rowan: And I'm Rowan.[00:00:44] Lara: And today we're gonna talk about a thing that I decided to make a good topic when listening to somebody else's podcast. and you know, I don't even remember what they said in the podcast, but what I really got out of it is that people have a lot of expectations about their life.What it's gonna look like, what people are supposed to do, what would make you a good parent? What would make you a good friend? Like there's a lot of things that people have decided are very much the right thing to do, and now. That is just the expectation, and I think expectations can be good, but a lot of time they can be really a good way to set yourself up for disappointment and frustration, and also to set yourself up to go down paths that you don't need to go down.I would agree as somebody who held myself to what I thought were the expectations of society. Placed upon me to the point where it was like, I know I'm not a girl. But society tells me that I'm a girl, so I guess I have to be a girl. Okay. And now I have to, have to fall in love with and marry a man.And okay, what does that mean? I guess I have to find a man that I can be attracted to. 'cause I wasn't attracted to men.Mm-hmm.[00:02:08] Rowan: And it just kind of went on from there. Right. And so, spent a long time in my life trying to align. What I was doing with what I thought everybody else wanted and and that's an incredibly destructive thing.Unhelpful and doesn't really serve a purpose other than to perhaps make other people more comfortable.[00:02:33] Lara: Yes. I mean, this comes around to the whole. Thing that I believe, which is a lot of what we are taught to expect and to want and how we're supposed to do life is really designed to make some people happy and content right?Like when we follow the rules and do what they want, they have the life and society they want, and we never really spent any time thinking about what we wanted and choosing for ourselves.[00:03:02] Rowan: I think it goes back to childhood where, you know, even really early, like, and I don't wanna get stuck on like gender or sexual orientation.Like there's so many expectations that we place on ourselves and others all, all throughout society. But a really easy one for me is. You know, when I had my son, my first son, and I would bring him around, and even when he was a baby, people were like, there'd be another baby.I would say a little girl around. I was like, oh, do you have a little girlfriend? Do you have a girlfriend? You know, or like, he'd come home from school and, you know, somebody, you know, a neighbor , would see him and, you know, might say something like, oh, any girls that you like, you know, so the expectation was.He is supposed to enter a relationship with a girl. He's supposed to find girls attractive. It's like drilled into him from a really early age. As it turns out, he does find girls attractive, but what if he didn't? And that was the expectation. You know, , and he's being told that that is something that he's supposed to feel that he's supposed to do, right?Like, oh, do you have a little girlfriend? Oh, maybe you'll get married one day. You know? And it's like, so now the expectation is you find a girl and then you get married to her, and it just goes on from there. Like, when are you having children? When, not if. Do you want children or anything along those lines?When are you two planning on having kids? It just grows out. , It's this constant assumption that we all want a specific life.[00:04:38] Lara: Yeah. And that they talk to your baby and ...
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    35 min
  • 17: On the differences in all of our brains

    17: On the differences in all of our brains
    Aug 26 2025
    Growing up, we were largely taught there was a “normal” way of thinking, and that anything outside of that was weird and rare. In this week’s episode, we’re pushing back on that outdated narrative. From the way we see colour to the way we feel when music plays, everyone’s brain has unique qualities - so why does society push us to think and see the world the same way as everyone else?Lara discusses having aphantasia (the inability to form or use visuals in one’s head) and Rowan has a form of synesthesia (where the stimulation of one sense involuntarily ignites another). And the more we’ve talked to others about the way our brains work, the more we’ve realized everyone has a quirk or two in their own grey matter, whether they’ve been aware of it or not.It’s a fascinating topic, and we’d love to hear how you think your brain is different from other people’s. Drop us a line and let us know!(Also: Curious to know if you have aphantasia? This chart will help you figure it out. Rowan is a 1. Lara is a 5.)Want more of Lara and Rowan?Rowan is available for speaking engagements, and Lara has coaching spots available.Links:Lara wrote an article about her Aphantasia for the Aphantasia Network.Episode 10: Education doesn't always have to look the sameTranscript(Please note, these are not carefully edited and there may be some errors)[00:00:00] Lara: When you understand that other people's brains are processing information differently, then you can at least think, oh.This person is thinking differently, not this person is being obtuse, not this person is trying to be confrontational, not this person is just being silly. Hi everybody. Welcome back to unboxing it. I'm Lara.[00:00:44] Rowan: And I'm Rowan.[00:00:46] Lara: And today we are gonna talk about something that I think is fascinating. If you gave me the chance to talk about this, most of the time, I would gladly take it because I think it's so interesting and so fascinating and I just love. The human experience , in talking about it this way.[00:01:07] Rowan: We're all dying to know what it is.[00:01:09] Lara: I know, right?it is really about brains and how they're all different. And I think that we grew up thinking that most of us are the same. Right. That in general, the way we think, the way we see the world, the way we process things, that they are the same for most of us.[00:01:31] Rowan: Yeah, that there's like a normal[00:01:34] Lara: and that even that we think we know what that normal is like. Just like, oh, everybody is like this, and number one, it's not true. Brains are different in so many different ways, and when we accept that. And we believe that we can stop feeling like we aren't measuring up to this normal that we believe we're supposed to be.[00:02:00] Rowan: Yeah. This idea that having a brain that doesn't work like other people's brains in some capacity is somehow a flaw Is unfortunate and. In some cases when brains work differently, that can be a real strength.[00:02:20] Lara: It can, I totally agree. And I think, you know, this becomes a bigger conversation that we're having more and more in recent years because.There are more and more people who are being diagnosed with ADHD and autism. Both of those are a spectrum. So now you have people who range all through the spectrum talking about their experiences and not trying. To be okay all the time, but instead saying, Hey, this is actually how I think instead of believing, you have to force yourself into what you think is normal.And so there's all these conversations happening and I love that because I think it's important.[00:02:59] Rowan: I think it can be really validating for people to receive a diagnosis, especially in adulthood because a lot of us were. Different in some capacity when we were younger and often being different in that way meant that we struggled to fit in maybe socially or to do well academically in the conventional school system, which we have talked about at length already in another episode, we have.Made it so that if you are different, if your brain is different, that means that life has to accommodate that difference. And I actually do very strongly believe in accommodations. I do believe that. But the reason why I think, and this is I think a greater discussion, I'd love to hear other people's views on this, but I Am neurodivergent myself. I know a lot of neurodivergent people and neurodivergent simply means that your brain doesn't work in a neurotypical way, if you will. That baseline normal, and I'm using air quotes here, I think the reason why. We have to be accommodated as neurodivergent people as much as we do is because society operates in this way where everybody's brain is supposed to work the same way.So it just comes back to that messaging and if we accept it that there are these. Differences and that these differences are a part of life, a part of humanity, a part of evolution, perhaps. I mean, I don't know. I'm not a ...
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    41 min
  • 16: How "you can do anything" turned into "you must do everything"

    16: How "you can do anything" turned into "you must do everything"
    Aug 19 2025
    Ever feel like a failure? It’s not your fault. As so often happens, society has taken something empowering and turned it into something toxic.Life often feels really heavy and like we have to do too much or risk not being enough. Over the years, the positive belief that “you can do anything you set your mind to” has morphed into the burden of “you HAVE to do everything or risk personal failure.” This belief can lead to lower self-esteem, anxiety, depression and burnout.In the episode of Unboxing It, we talk about division of labour, how women are still responsible for most of the domestic labour (ugh), how men are also being pushed to always do more - and there’s a little bit about Indian food in there too for good measure.Links and resources related to this episode:Research article : Couples’ Perceptions of the Division of Household and Child Care Tasks: Are there Differences between Sociodemographic Groups?Episode 10: Education doesn’t always have to look the sameEpisode 4: Resting isn’t lazyMeet the Tiffin Lady Want more of Lara and Rowan?Rowan is available for speaking engagements, and Lara has coaching spots available.Transcript[00:00:00] Lara: Doing everything is exhausting, doing everything when you said burnout before, because stopped taking care of ourselves. We're just taking care of everything else and everyone else, and that's not really a happy life for most people. Hey, welcome to another episode of Unboxing It. I am Rowan.And I'm Lara.[00:00:43] Rowan: And we have got a really interesting topic, I think today. This, came off the wall in your office, right, Lara?[00:00:53] Lara: That's right. I've got a big list of topics that we've been collecting so that we can keep, having these weekly conversations that everybody gets to listen to.[00:01:02] Rowan: Yeah, my problem is that I will come up with one and if I don't text you about it right away, I forget about it, I completely just goes in one side of my brain and like out the other side of my brain. Is that, is that a thing? I think that's must be in one ear and out the other, but you know what I mean?[00:01:17] Lara: It works all the ways.[00:01:18] Rowan: So our topic this time is. When do we go from, you can do anything. You can be anything that you want to be. You can do anything you want to do to, you have to do everything and you have to be good at it.[00:01:39] Lara: And. You can do anything was new. I think when we were kids, like that wasn't a thing.Our parents and the generations before were even told you can do anything. They're like you, need to get a job and support your family and. Stop dreaming. Big life isn't like that. And then we started telling people they could do whatever they wanted, which I think in some ways was great. But also in some ways has led us down this path that we're gonna talk about with the need to do everything.[00:02:10] Rowan: Yeah, I think back in the day I love saying back in the day, and every time I say back in the day, I'm older than the last time I said it, which makes me so happy. we're Gen X. So like, you know, back in the, boomer years or back further, you know, you had people who were told, yeah, your purpose is you are going to grow up and you're going to help on the farm, and then you're going to take over that farm, for example.That was the case. In agriculture for a really long time. The expectation was you would probably do what your parents do, and in other situations it was you're going to do what your family expects of you. So it would be, you know, you're gonna go become a doctor, you're gonna go be a teacher, and then women were further limited.You're going to stay home and raise children, or you're going to get very limited schooling. And so this is why things really started to change over time when feminism became more prominent. Women especially we're then told You can be anything you want to be, but. I think the problem has been you can be anything you want to be, but you still have to be all those other things too.[00:03:19] Lara: Yeah. So now we opened up. Beyond teacher, nurse, and secretary.[00:03:26] Rowan: Yes. Teacher, nurse, secretary, mother is what women were allowed to do.[00:03:30] Lara: Yeah,[00:03:30] Rowan: that was pretty much it. Oh, phone operator sometimes that sort of secretary[00:03:34] Lara: There you go, phone operator.[00:03:35] Rowan: Yeah.[00:03:35] Lara: And so now you can be anything you wanna be, and if you think back to the way things used to be, but this is even before we experienced, I think it's like the men.Went to work. You wanna be a company man, right? Like the goal is to work somewhere till you get your gold watch. 'cause you spent 30, 40, 50 years working there and then you retire. And , the men, theoretically didn't need to worry much about how the home ran. And then women started.Going out and doing more things and getting more degrees and having the same kinds of jobs as men, and then who is gonna take care of the ...
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    41 min
  • 15: Talking mental health and asking for help

    15: Talking mental health and asking for help
    Aug 12 2025
    I (Lara here today) was recently talking to a friend about how it often feels like everyone has life more together than we do. That everyone is happier, less stressed, and hitting goal after goal. The truth of the matter is that we are never seeing the full picture, that a lot more people are out there struggling than you think. That’s why I think conversations like the one Rowan and I had in today’s episode are so important. We want you to remember that you’re not alone, you deserve to get help and support, and that asking for help is NOT weak.Related episodes People PleasingSaying noWant more of Lara and Rowan?Rowan is available for speaking engagements, and Lara has coaching spots available.Transcripts(please note: we do not carefully edit these transcripts and there might be errors)00:00:00] Lara: we don't need to do what was always done just because that was what was always done.We get to stop and say, Hey, you know what would be better? Taking care of ourselves, you know, what would be better? Taking advantage of things when it comes to like the world of medicine, Welcome to unboxing it. I'm Lara.[00:00:38] Rowan: And I'm Rowan.[00:00:40] Lara: And today we're gonna start off with a little bit of a discussion about how we always have a discussion before we start recording. So we get on a call and theoretically we're gonna start recording and then it takes at least half an hour 'cause we have things to say.[00:00:56] Rowan: Yeah, at least, we're always catching up first.[00:00:58] Lara: And we decide from our list of topics what we're gonna talk about. And so today we picked our topic and I said, Hey Rowan, do you want to introduce the topic?[00:01:11] Rowan: And I said, uh, yeah. Okay.[00:01:15] Lara: Yeah. And then I said, Hey, did you say yes when you meant no?[00:01:21] Rowan: AndI said, uh, yeah, I did.[00:01:25] Lara: Yeah, you did. And uh, gosh, what I do like is that I now have started noticing when I do that and when other people do it, and I appreciate when people call me out on it. So hopefully you appreciate it when I called you out on it.[00:01:41] Rowan: Oh yeah, I did because like I didn't want to intro this topic and, once we say what the topic is and why it's relevant right now, I think people will understand.But yeah, I just, I'm not in a place to take lead on it this week.[00:01:56] Lara: Yeah. But we so often say yes because we think somebody wants us to do a thing. It's got a bit of a people pleasing. Nature to it, or I should do it. And so yeah, we thought we'd mention that because it's a little bit of a thing. I hope everybody starts to notice.Like you don't have to say yes just because somebody asked you to do something. In fact, I would say the other person doesn't even always expect you to say yes, but sometimes you think they do and therefore you have to say yes. And so taking a little bit of that away and just being like. No.[00:02:32] Rowan: I like the way you said it too.No,no, no, no. Right. There's this idea, these habits are so ingrained in us, right? These people pleasing habits. And there's this idea that's like, well, I don't wanna let you down and I was running through my head. I'm like, how many have I introduced versus, how many have you introduced the topic of it?Like, oh, okay. I'll just, yeah. Just say yes, yes, yes, I will do it. Yes. And it's nice. I think it shows honestly, not experts in a lot of the topics that we're talking about. And even if we were experts also often become experts in a topic because they have lived experience in that topic.I know a lot about people pleasing, and I will tell you that most of the time I am quite good at setting boundaries these days, but I do fall into that. What if I let somebody down mentality and I did today. So yeah. Thank you for calling me out on[00:03:33] Lara: that. No problem. Uh. We all do it. I think we all do it.So it's just a good reminder. You don't have to say yes all the time. And I think again, that the expectation isn't even always that somebody needs you to say yes when they ask you a question, but I think most of the time people believe it is. And I often like to remind people like it was just a question.[00:03:56] Rowan: That's right. It is just a question.[00:03:58] Lara: so hi. I'm gonna introduce the topic today, not Rowan. and we're gonna talk about the difference between mental health and physical health and the kinds of help you can get with those, whether it's medication, I think it also follows through to other kinds of therapies you might get, but that they don't always feel the same and it can feel harder.To ask for help to go get help, to start receiving help when it's on the side of mental health[00:04:28] Rowan: in a very big way.[00:04:31] Lara: So we're gonna talk about that a little bit because Rowan and I both believe that. In a like logic in our heads kind of way that it shouldn't be different and that we should all go and ask for the kind of help we need when we need it,...
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    36 min
  • 14: Gender, Allyship and Stevie Bees

    14: Gender, Allyship and Stevie Bees
    Aug 5 2025
    Pals, we’re stoked to bring you this interview with the incredible activist and stellar human Stevie Bees! If you don’t know who they are, you’re going to enjoy getting to know them (we have links to their various sites in the show notes). Stevie joins us to talk about pushing back against the gender binary and being true to oneself. We also discuss allyship and what it means to show up for people. What happens if we make a mistake? And on the other side of things, what happens when we expect perfection from our allies?It’s a wholesome, informative, friendly conversation we hope you’ll love as much as we did. AND Stevie said they’d be happy to join us for another episode, so if you have questions or topics you’d like us to delve into, let us know.Links to StevieStevie’s websiteStevie’s link treeStevie’s FacebookStevie’s Facebook GroupWant more of Lara and Rowan?Rowan is available for speaking engagements, and Lara has coaching spots available.Transcript(please note, we do not edit these carefully so there could be some errors)00:00:00] Stevie: autism is a spectrum. Sexuality is a spectrum. gender is a spectrum. Allyship is a spectrum too.And as long as we are going the same direction, they're safe for you as long as people are.Still committed to learning, and growing from that. Welcome to another episode of Unboxing It. I am Rowan.[00:00:44] Lara: And I'm Lara.[00:00:45] Rowan: And we have a guest today.[00:00:46] Stevie: I'm Stevie.[00:00:48] Rowan: Yes, Stevie. Yes. We're so excited to have Stevie. We've been talking about having you on our show since like day one, I think. So thank you so much for being here today. I think it's gonna be a great conversation.So, I am going to tell you a little bit about Stevie, but mostly I want them to tell you about themself because I think, that is way more interesting. But Stevie Brocksom is an active community member, artist, author, queer and trans activist. A gender doula and oh boy, I cannot wait to get to what a gender doula is.I think that's gonna be fascinating for people. They see clients in the community to support them with social, legal, and medical transition. there's a lot that you do. Stevie, I wanna ask you so much about, so many things you do, you make. Shirts, you make stickers, you help the community. you have a scholarship program.you do so much. But most importantly here it says, Stevie is passionate about equity for transgender people in all marginalized communities, especially with regards to reproductive justice. And when you're not busy with your advocacy work, you can be found doing art or spending time with your kiddos and husband.So welcome, Stevie.[00:02:05] Stevie: Thank you. It's always interesting to hear when someone else reads it off. 'cause it's like, oh yeah, I do a lot of stuff.[00:02:12] Rowan: You are a very busy human being.[00:02:14] Stevie: Uh, you don't even knowthe half of it.[00:02:19] Rowan: So let's start with. A little bit about why we wanted to have you on. I'm just gonna touch on that. We can come back to it after. But one of the things that we do on this podcast, the front and center thing that we do on this podcast is we try really hard to challenge societal norms and expectations because a lot of us mean, all of us really in.Various cultures around the world, but right now we're talking about, you know, Western culture. We grow up with these ideas, these imprints of who we're supposed to be and how we are supposed to behave. And somehow this is supposed to be what leads us to contentment and success. And as we know, that is not always the case.as somebody with a non-binary child and as somebody who for a while. When I realized I was not cisgender, did identify as non-binary before I figured out that I'm just a stinky boy on the inside. I think non-binary people are of particular importance when it comes to understanding gender constructs.So I thought of anyone I know, Stevie, you would be the best suited to talk to us about this, but. Before we get into that, I wanna know a little bit about you. Like what are some of your favorite things to do in life?[00:03:37] Stevie: wow. Okay. my favorite things to do, honestly, I just follow my kids' lead.I've got two kiddos, one just turned seven and the other one's four. And, they don't have those societal norms ingrained yet, so I just follow their lead all of us are grownups trying to figure out what our inner child is doing to heal and things like that. So, like I said, I just, follow their lead.I wanna see where they're going, what they're doing. they're challenging their own gender norms and it's fascinating to watch when you don't have someone of an oppressive view of the world who's like, you know, steering you. so I've got one kiddo that. Half the days as a girl and half the days as a boy and is always wearing a tiara or a tutu and you know, like I just let them be because, you know, they're figuring it out.my favorite things to do though, ...
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    43 min
  • 13: On Aging and Ageism

    13: On Aging and Ageism
    Jul 29 2025
    Lara just turned 49 and has been thinking a lot about how 50 is right around the corner. In this conversation, we dig into people’s perceptions of aging and the fact that Lara doesn’t dye her hair (which is weird because have you seen her hair? Not a grey in sight!)We also talked about Pamela Anderson and Justine Bateman, and how they are bucking beauty standards for older women. Do you remember how “older” people looked on Archie Bunker and the Golden Girls? In some ways, people look younger at 50 now because of how they dress and wear their hair, but also potentially because we really are aging more slowly now.Just for fun, we did a bit of research on some of the shows we watched growing up that featured older people. While the Golden Girls were all meant to be in their 50s, most of the actors were in their early 60s (the exception was Rue McClanahan, who was 51). Carroll O’Connor was 46 when he started in his role as Archie Bunker (how?!)Want more of Lara and Rowan?Rowan is available for speaking engagements, and Lara has coaching spots available.Transcripts(we do not carefully edit these so there may be errors)[00:00:00] Rowan: have traded. A lot of insecurity in the past for more confidence.As I've gotten older and I have traded a lot of what I thought were really important things like youthfulness for wisdom. And I wouldn't trade it back at this point.[00:00:43] Lara: Hi everyone. Welcome to unboxing it. I'm Lara.[00:00:46] Rowan: And I'm Rowan.[00:00:48] Lara: And we are back for another episode. And this week we are talking about something that directly relates to my most recent life event, which was that it was my birthday recently and I turned 49, which means I'm going to be 50 soon.[00:01:06] Rowan: Ooh, that's a big one.I'm turning 49 in about a month and a half, so yeah, it's creeping up there.[00:01:16] Lara: I know. And because we're so similar in age, which I always sort of keep in the back of my mind, like we're very similar in age, so we're coming on all these things at approximately the same time, and I think.That it's a really good topic to dig into for a number of reasons. So age and ageism, and how do we feel about getting older and how do we just sort of feel about all of it? So I will say that the only birthday that I had where I was like, Ugh, I feel old. And not accomplished enough for this age.Right? Like I think that that was really at the root of what my problem with turning that age was. It was 25.[00:02:02] Rowan: Sorry. I apologize to everyone about to turn 25 who might be listening to this. I was like, Rowan, you're rude. Why'd you just laugh?[00:02:09] Lara: I know. And like certainly the older you get, the more somebody being like, I'm so old, and you're like.Dude, you're 34. Like, come on. But then I am positive that 80 year olds think I am silly for suggesting I'm old, right? Like, that's okay. But at 25, my parents were married and had been married for several years. And I was born when my mom was 25. And you know, they were doing their masters and their PhD, one of each, and I was like, here I am.I have no partner. I'm still in school, but like, I wasn't doing a master's or PhD. And I moved out of my parents' house right before I turned 25 essentially, because I was like, I can't be living at home at 25. That is, not okay. So all that to say 25 was the one where I felt a little bit of that angst that I think people talk about with age.I didn't feel it at 30, I didn't feel it at 40, and I'm not particularly feeling it at 50 in terms of I don't wanna go there or I don't wanna admit it, but I have other feelings about it.[00:03:20] Rowan: Curious. I'm curious to know what your other feelings about it are.[00:03:23] Lara: So. I think that for every decade, so 30, 40, and I'm hoping 50, I became more confident.I had more self-assurance, I felt more comfortable in my skin. there's just a little bit more, I don't care what other people think, like that has come with age and you know, some work, self-work. And so to me. If that's the trend, my fifties should be even better than my forties and like I am, I'm there for it.That's fine. I have no issues with it. But I do catch myself still in that, you know, the ageism thing where like, we don't want to get old, we don't like, maybe I'm getting older in numbers, but I don't seem old. I don't look old. I'm not old in nature, all of that. I still don't wanna be quote unquote old, even if I'm fine with the number.And so i'm trying to unpack that, right, because for me, I catch myself in certain things. For example, I don't know if this happens to you, might have happened to you more before or maybe not, but like, I'll be like, it's my birthday and somebody will be like, happy 29th birthday. And I'm like,[00:04:39] Rowan: oh. I don't understand that[00:04:40] Lara: because you don't wanna ever be thought of as older than 30, like, God forbid, and I'm like, , no. We can say I'm, I'm 49, that's fine. But the idea that we ...
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    35 min
  • 12: Arrogance vs Confidence

    12: Arrogance vs Confidence
    Jul 22 2025
    What’s the difference between arrogance and confidence? As it turns out, they couldn’t be more different.We have feelings on this topic - BIG feelings. And we’re not holding back.In this episode, we dive into what society teaches many of us about being proud of ourselves (but not too proud), how self-esteem (or a lack thereof) sets the stage, and on the importance of practicing saying “thank you” when receiving compliments (even if we feel bad about accepting them.)What do you think we can do to encourage more confidence in ourselves and each other? We’d love to hear your thoughts.Want more of Lara and Rowan?Rowan is available for speaking engagements, and Lara has coaching spots available.TranscriptPlease note, we don’t carefully review these transcripts so there may be some errors.[00:00:00] Rowan: Why do you think we look at somebody posting pictures of themselves, and we think that is an arrogant, narcissistic person and not like, oh, hey, good for that guy. He looks good today. he's smiling, he is happy and enjoying his life.I'm happy for him, . Hey there, another week, another topic. I'm Rowan.And I'm Laraand you're with us on unboxing It. And this week we have got a doozy. i'm really excited to talk about this because I feel like I have a lot of experience with it and it is the difference between arrogance and confidence.It's a big one, right?[00:01:03] Lara: It is, and it's something I talk to a lot of people about as well, and I have a lot of feelings and opinions about, so we're gonna have fun with it.[00:01:10] Rowan: So. I have been online and you have been online for a very long time. Longer than I think either of us wanna admit, and probably more frequently than either of us would like to admit at one point or another. And one of the things that I have noticed is there have been trends. There have been trends around things like. Is it cool to take selfies or is it not cool to take selfies? How much should you talk about yourself? And, what do all these things say about you as a person? And those are just online examples, but we all know that there are some people out there who show off a lot.There are other people who maybe are a little quieter and. Still have no problem talking about themselves. And I think there's a difference between what we perceive as arrogance and what is actually arrogance and what we perceive as confidence and what is actually confidence in your opinion, Lara, what do you think the main difference is?And then I'm gonna give my own,[00:02:17] Lara: well, I think it's more complicated than that. So I'm gonna back it up a little bit. Ooh. And then we'll go beyond that. I do think that arrogance and confidence get mixed up. A lot. And I think that like so many other things we talk about, there is a difference between what we say they are and then how people behave when it comes to those things.So if people say it's really important to be confident, but then they see somebody talking about what they do well, they're like, you are being arrogant. And you're like, actually I think that person's being confident. So part of the. I don't know if it's a problem, but it is a challenge. Is that what people say you're doing?can be sort of turned into something bad because it makes them uncomfortable because people wish, like they're jealous, I think to some extent, right? Like I wish I could tell people I was great, but I'm not. Right. Or like, some of the things we've been told to stay small, and I think Canadians have this even more.Apparently Canadians and Australians are sort of in the same boat. But the whole tall poppy syndrome, I don't know if you've heard that. Like you're not supposed to stand out. If you stand out, you're being I don't know if the word bad, but you're being arrogant.You're being something that we don't like.[00:03:37] Rowan: You're showing off.[00:03:38] Lara: Yeah. Right. But showing off shouldn't show off, which means that we stop allowing ourselves to think we're good at things like we have been taught to not think we're good at things. So to me, confidence is believing that you're good at something, believing that you're able to do something, being, proud of what you're doing. Arrogance is probably like, you're not really good at it, but you're like walking around telling everybody you are like, there's like this, bigger, I'm trying to make people believe something that's not true, versus I simply own that I'm good at something and it's okay for me to talk about it sometimes.[00:04:17] Rowan: Hmm hmm. That's a good perspective for sure. I went really deep into it for my last book, one sunny Afternoon. I'm not gonna pull the book out and search for it right now, but I think that would've required some planning, which I did not do. The amount of times we just hop on a call and go, okay, what are we talking about today?And we just go, which is what we plan to do in its own way because it's authentic, right? We have these, like, fresh ...
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    48 min
  • 11: Is that fair?

    11: Is that fair?
    Jul 15 2025
    As Rowan and Lara know all too well, life isn’t always fair. We wish it was, but since it isn’t, we tackled ways we can make the best of situations that don’t feel just. We mostly did this with butter tart and cupboard door examples, though we didn’t always see eye to eye on some key points in said examples (don’t get Rowan started on the importance of the butter tart unless you want a debate on your hands).Let us know in the comments if you have anything to add to the conversation (about fairness OR butter tarts. Just… remember how sensitive Rowan is).Things we referenced in the episodeEpisode on Unexpected ChangeDoo Doo’s BakeryWant more of Lara and Rowan?Rowan is available for speaking engagements, and Lara has coaching spots available.TranscriptPlease note : we don’t edit these automatically generated transcripts carefully so there may be some errors. 00:00:00] Rowan: A lot of life is things that happen to us. And a lot of what kind of joy and happiness and connection and peace that we find is how we choose to deal with those things. . Thanksfor joining us on this week's episode of Unboxing It. I'm Rowan.[00:00:41] Lara: And I'm Lara.[00:00:42] Rowan: And today we're talking about a topic that it's a thing that I say all the time and I have to check myself, but fairness, and you know when something happens and you go. That's not fair. Mm-hmm. That's not fair.Right?[00:00:58] Lara: Yeah, it's not fair. It's a big feeling that can be really crushing or just like veer you off when you feel it.[00:01:10] Rowan: It's that sense of injustice for me. And I think in part, like, I wanna talk about why we chose this topic. We chose it because there's this idea when we're growing up, I think that life should be fair.That everything should be balanced. You know, and, I wanna preface this by saying I'm a human rights advocate, so I am all about equity. I want to see people have the same opportunities as other people, no matter who they are, where they come from. And I will continue to always fight for that, but in my own life.I can feel a sense of injustice, like it is nobody's business. I do not like injustice when I feel that something isn't fair. I haven't been given a fair shake. I've been dealt a worse hand than somebody else. I can stew in that for days sometimes. I don't know about you,Lara.[00:02:12] Lara: Yeah, I think it's really easy to get into this really angry place where it's not fair, how come I have to deal with this and you don't have to deal with this? why am I dealt this hand? And it's difficult to get through it when you feel like that. That's one of those things that brings up resentmentsomething that I think just poisons everything. Whenever you're in a moment of resentment, I think something needs to be fixed, which is, you know, all part and parcel of this conversation. What does it mean when something isn't fair? What do you do when something isn't fair? Do you have to accept that life isn't fair and just like let everybody rumble over you?Or are there solutions, like what is the solution? So I think that's what we're gonna get to dig into because. There's lots of ways to look at this. There's lots of ways to think about this. There's a lot of ways to feel about this and I never think there's just one way through. So we're gonna talk about the different parts, the different strategies, the different ways to internalize all of this.[00:03:17] Rowan: Where do you think the idea, like did you get your sense of fairness? Do you think It's taught to us by our parents. Do you think it's taught to us by school or the media? What do you think?[00:03:29] Lara: Probably all of the above, right? again, just like all kinds of things, what we're taught in the words and then what we see in action are not always the same, right?So like everything needs to be fair. There's law, there's judges, there's rules. And so we talk about it and I think this is probably one of the ways that we get all messed up about it, is we talk about it as in everything should be fair. Everything has a way of being. Everything has rules and rights and wrongs.And then because in life that actually isn't true, right? Like there's so many gray areas, there's so much wiggle room on all of the sides that what we were told doesn't play out in real life. And so it feels like we're making a mistake. It feels like something isn't working when really. It was never meant to be that black and white.[00:04:23] Rowan: Ooh.Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think morals, we're taught morals, right? The difference between right and wrong, and I. I was raised Catholic, so that was drilled into me this idea. I mean like, look what Eve did with the Apple while she broke that rule. Well, obviously they should be cast out of the Garden of Eden and suffer.Right? and that sort of permeates a lot of my thoughts around fairness. So, Again, I, want to say that privilege is a real thing and that there are people born into or find themselves in ...
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    37 min